Chargemaster Results

[kyreloader]

I have been using a Chargemaster for many years for weighing and dispensing powder for my reloading needs. Recently, I purchased a Sartorius Entris scale to fine tune my powder loads and consistency for long range Fclass. I use my Chargemaster to dispense my powder charge minus 0.1g, then use my Omega trickler to arrive at my final load. Earlier this week, I wrote down 50 charges dropped with my Chargemaster and what they weighed on the Entris scale to the nearest 0.02 grains. Here is the data using H4350 set up to drop 51.6g:

51.66, 51.66, 51.70, 51.62, 51.52, 51.52, 51.52, 51.50, 51.58, 51.60, 51.54, 51.54, 51.62, 51.48, 51.56, 51.46, 51.56, 51.56, 51.58, 51.58, 51.70, 51.54, 51.58, 51.60, 51.60, 51.58, 51.52, 51.60, 51.70, 51.56, 51.62, 51.48, 51.56, 51.52, 51.66, 51.54, 51.64, 51.54, 51.64, 51.66, 51.64, 51.54, 51.52, 51.58, 51.56, 51.54, 51.62, 51.62, 51.64, 51.56.

Therefore, the high was 51.70g, the low was 51.46g, the ES was 0.24g, the mean was 51.58g and the SD was 0.058.

This was not presented to argue one way or the other, just to present my results.

(I did the usual, let both scales warm up for 48 hours, used a calibrated weight on both scales prior to starting, checked zero on both scales between each charge, controlled conditions in the room, etc.).

 

[savagedasher]

After it weighed did you hear the beep and re weighed? Was the number on the charge master the same as your scale ? Mine is. Larry

 

[kyreloader]

After it weighed did you hear the beep and re weighed? Was the number on the charge master the same as your scale ? Mine is. Larry

Larry, I always wait until after I hear the beep for the unit to reweigh the charge. If it under or overthrew a charge I would add or remove powder until the Chargemaster read 51.6g after waiting for it to settle.

Regarding your second question, my Chargemaster scale read 51.6g every time and the Equis read the numbers listed in my original post.

 

[dantiff2]

First off, I do not use a ChargeMaster. Looking at these results I was actually very impressed. This is a mass produced unit that has a fairly broad tolerance. I know people that use these alone with no other means of confirming weight and have super low ES and SD numbers. I use an older Lyman DPS myself and have seen my ES numbers down in the single digits when measuring velocity's of my BR loads. I recently fired a ten shot string with my XC with an ES of 14 fps using 38gr of H4350 thrown from a DPS scale. How much better can you get? That's for people with a lot more money than me to decide

I think for the average Joe. This is more than suitable to keep them competitive. Hell, short range guys get good results with clicks from a thrower and never even weigh the charge..


Dan

 

[gilmillan1]

the chargemaster is excellent for hunting purposes, but not for competitive shooting. people who shoot competitively use the chargemaster to charge their target loads to a lower amount of grains and then trickle into a precision scale.

 

[LHSmith]

the chargemaster is excellent for hunting purposes, but not for competitive shooting. people who shoot competitively use the chargemaster to charge their target loads to a lower amount of grains and then trickle into a precision scale.

Go to the F.I.S.S. (Super Shoot) at Kelbly's in May and you will find CM's all over......and very few tricklers on the reloading benches.
Op- good info to know.

 

[SET]

the chargemaster is excellent for hunting purposes, but not for competitive shooting. people who shoot competitively use the chargemaster to charge their target loads to a lower amount of grains and then trickle into a precision scale.

I'll have to disagree with that.

 

[savagedasher]

I seen a lot's of green on
the loading benches at the Super Shoot. What were they were hunting? All I see was paper targets ;D
Larry

 

[kyreloader]

I seen a lot's of green on
the loading benches at the Super Shoot. What were they were hunting? All I see was paper targets ;D
Larry

We all have to agree that short range bench rest is much different than long range bench rest or long-range Fclass regarding vertical dispersion being tied to powder charge.

 

[Joe R]

kyreloader said:

I have been using a Chargemaster for many years for weighing and dispensing powder for my reloading needs. Recently, I purchased a Sartorius Entris scale to fine tune my powder loads and consistency for long range Fclass. I use my Chargemaster to dispense my powder charge minus 0.1g, then use my Omega trickler to arrive at my final load. Earlier this week, I wrote down 50 charges dropped with my Chargemaster and what they weighed on the Entris scale to the nearest 0.02 grains. Here is the data using H4350 set up to drop 51.6g:

51.66, 51.66, 51.70, 51.62, 51.52, 51.52, 51.52, 51.50, 51.58, 51.60, 51.54, 51.54, 51.62, 51.48, 51.56, 51.46, 51.56, 51.56, 51.58, 51.58, 51.70, 51.54, 51.58, 51.60, 51.60, 51.58, 51.52, 51.60, 51.70, 51.56, 51.62, 51.48, 51.56, 51.52, 51.66, 51.54, 51.64, 51.54, 51.64, 51.66, 51.64, 51.54, 51.52, 51.58, 51.56, 51.54, 51.62, 51.62, 51.64, 51.56.

Therefore, the high was 51.70g, the low was 51.46g, the ES was 0.24g, the mean was 51.58g and the SD was 0.058.

This was not presented to argue one way or the other, just to present my results.

(I did the usual, let both scales warm up for 48 hours, used a calibrated weight on both scales prior to starting, checked zero on both scales between each charge, controlled conditions in the room, etc.).

Hi kyreloader,
Like you I have Sartorius an Entris 64 scale and use the ChargeMaster (CM) to get me within 0.1 grain. I assume you also bought the Troemner class 1 certified calibration weight, right? I've had my Sartorius less than a year.

I agree that the CM is a very good value. When I bought it it was a big improvement over my previous setup and I was as happy as a rabbit in clover. I wasn't competing then, I also improved my CM by using the straw adapter, but made no other mods to it.

Having said all of that, I would say that it would be a fluke if my CM were to throw 50 charges as consistently as your did. I don't have any data on that. I reload in batches of 100 .308s at the time and I seldom go more than 30 to 50 rounds without one throw being in the -0.1 to -0.2 range, sometimes several throws. Occasionally/rarely it starts to drift to the point that I have to turn it off and recalibrate. 3/4s of the variances are on the low side, the overthrows are less common. I'm sure that is by design, obviously it is better to err on the side of safety.

If my CM broke today I would buy another within minutes, however since I am into F/TR, if my Sartorius broke I would also buy another before reloading my next batch. Once you get used to good things its hard giving them up. ;D

Kindest regards,

Joe

 

[gilmillan1]

I should have qualified my answer. I was referring strictly to long range shooting. F class shooting at 1000 yards.

 

[BoydAllen]

Interesting report. It is good to have some solid data. Thanks

 

[nosualc]

RCBS claims +/- .1 gr. Your experimentally derived ES of .24 would seem to back up this claim. Good data, thanks for sharing this with us. I doubt that my CM is up to the same standard

If +/- .1gr is good enough for you intended purpose (whatever that be), a CM is exactly what you're looking for.

If my CM broke today I would buy another within minutes, however since I am into F/TR, if my Sartorius broke I would also buy another before reloading my next batch.

Well put.

-nosualc

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

RCBS claims +/- .1 gr. Your experimentally derived ES of .24 would seem to back up this claim. Good data, thanks for sharing this with us. I doubt that my CM is up to the same standard

If +/- .1gr is good enough for you intended purpose (whatever that be), a CM is exactly what you're looking for.

If my CM broke today I would buy another within minutes, however since I am into F/TR, if my Sartorius broke I would also buy another before reloading my next batch.

Well put.

-nosualc

I know I might be opening a can of worms here, but I would like to add, that a .1 grain of powder charge difference, according to Quickload, usually accounts for anywhere from 6-9fps difference in muzzle velocity. I cannot imagine that this would have a significant effect on the accuracy of the reload itself, taking all other variables as constant.

So a Chargemaster would likely be ample for most competitive shooting applications.

 

[Snuggie]

I load with both Varget and 8208XBR. I had over and under throws until I put a brass insert into the end of my CM. Got it from a forum member. Since then I have not had one over or under throw in over 400 throws. Works great! I have no verticle or horizontal dispersion at all. My loads are very consistent as evidenced by my scores. Haven't seen the need for a more sensitive scale. Just my input guys. BTW, very good thread! Regards, Dwight. 8)

 

[dmoran]

I load with both Varget and 8208XBR. I had over and under throws until I put a brass insert into the end of my CM. Got it from a forum member. Since then I have not had one over or under throw in over 400 throws. Works great! I have no verticle or horizontal dispersion at all. My loads are very consistent as evidenced by my scores. Haven't seen the need for a more sensitive scale. Just my input guys. BTW, very good thread! Regards, Dwight. 8)

If you have no vertical or horizontal dispersion at all, you have perfected perfection !.!.!
With ability to send them "all into 1-hole, all day long".

You got me beat, I've never been able to perfect the perfect load (and doubt I ever will).

 

[nosualc]

I know I might be opening a can of worms here, but I would like to add, that a .1 grain of powder charge difference, according to Quickload, usually accounts for anywhere from 6-9fps difference in muzzle velocity. I cannot imagine that this would have a significant effect on the accuracy of the reload itself, taking all other variables as constant.

So a Chargemaster would likely be ample for most competitive shooting applications.

It's plus or minus .1, for a total spread of .2. QL might say .2 is worth 12-18fps (for argument's sake, let's say QL is gospel).

All other variables as constant, 12-18 ES will show up on target at longer distances. Unfortunately, all other variables are never constant, and variance in powder charge will stack with all the other variables.

It is possible to do much better than +/- .1gr. It isn't cheap or fast, but it's a variable that can be nearly eliminated.

I shoot F-Open. Tournaments are won and lost by single points or X count. Every little thing counts, and hyper accurate charge weights are low hanging fruit. I don't shoot LR bench, but I'm sure those guys would say the same thing.

This is not to say that a CM isn't a cool little device, especially for the money. I own and use one, but by itself, I don't think it's consistent enough for LR competition.

-nosualc

 

[1066]

Since then I have not had one over or under throw in over 400 throws. )

I think the point is Dwight that although the numbers say it's dead nuts on every time, measurement shows that it can be 1/4 grain out and still say it's bang on.
Whether that .25 grain makes much difference is another debate altogether.

Personally I think that it may make a difference at extended ranges. If just the (dead on) powder charge can result in a 25fps variation from load to load you're certainly going to struggle to get your ES down to single figures

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

Since then I have not had one over or under throw in over 400 throws. )

I think the point is Dwight that although the numbers say it's dead nuts on every time, measurement shows that it can be 1/4 grain out and still say it's bang on.
Whether that .25 grain makes much difference is another debate altogether.

Right, I agree with this. So then my question is, how do you know how accurate the measuring scale is that is checking the Chargemaster? If I wanted to get that match ammunition ready for a big match, which scale is then the best for accuracy? And then, how do you confirm that? I gotta think that at some point, the propagation of error is amongst other variables that you will NEVER be able to obtain a completely accurate measurement of the weight of your powder charge.

 

[tclaunch]

Excellent report Wade, not suprised by the fact you trying to improve your game. Your involved early in trying to defend your F-Open state Championship. The Omega and high end scale is what helped the IBS 1000 yd champ. I feel you are on the right path. Let the naysayers ramble..... ;D