Charge question

[copperking81]

Rookie question. I've been reloading a bit now but mostly using ball powder in varmint calibers.

I worked up loads for my .270 Win using H4831 this week. I got the load data from my Hornady's manual. I put together a handful across the weight range progressing from the lightest (52.3) to the heaviest (62.0). I haven't fired any of them yet.

When putting together the heavier loads I noticed that the powder filled into the neck and I could actually hear it compress when I seated the bullet. Is that normal or indicative of an error or too heavy of a powder load? I have not encountered this before but it seemed like something to pay attention to.

I calibrated the scale and checked the weights multiple times. Everything appears to be in order. I'm guessing it's because it's a stick powder and doesn't fill in as well as the ball powders I've mostly used. i.e. lots more space between each stick

Before I go to the range and test it out, I wanted to float this by those of you that are more experienced. Obviously you can't see what I'm doing but just trying to understand if any of this (i.e. powder into the neck) sounds alarming to you.

Its not the prettiest but I do value my face...

 

[Rsadams]

You have a compressed load which normally has a C by it in the load data. Lots of loads useing stick powder are compressed that normally wouldn't be with ball becouse it takes up more room in the case..

Compressed loads are fine.. BUT I am gona let the more experienced guys comment on your question..

 

[MrBottleneck]

Im not a 270win owner but, the principles are the same to help awnser your question.

You, didnt mention what weight bullet your loading it with so, I will take a guess at 110-120.
According to Hodgen (quickest reference I had close by) that is max and is a compressed load for either weight bullet.
So, yes to awnser your question a "compressed" load is exactly that. The powder being compressed as the bullet is seated into the case. Most books will notate that with a "C"

Since you are new obviously start at the lightest and work your way up.
Watch for pressure signs (re: flattening primers etc) and pay attention to how easily the shell extracts and bolt lift. Once you notice pressure signs STOP. If you dont get to the max at 62gr no worries simply pull them as you know those will be to hot.

Here is a nice article for you to read to help you notice what you case and rifle is telling you.
http://www.massreloading.com/reading_pressure_signs.html

 

[tenring]

Compressed loads can push the bullets upward after they are seated. Make sure they fit into your magazine.

 

[Jammer Six]

I have the Hornady manual; all the compressed loads I've used are marked as such in that manual.

If I felt a load compress that I didn't expect to compress I would start looking for the mistake I'd made. I'd start by looking for the notation in the manual.

 

[copperking81]

Thanks guys! I've heard the term compressed load but didn't make the connection until now with your explanations. Let me follow up with another question.

I have the Hornady Manual 9th edition and I don't see the "C" indication for this load. In fact, a quick run through the book and I don't see it used in load tables anywhere. Am I missing something? They highlight the max loads but make no distinction between a compressed vs non-compressed load.

I probably need to pick up another manual or two just have as additional references....

 

[copperking81]

I have the Hornady manual; all the compressed loads I've used are marked as such in that manual.

If I felt a load compress that I didn't expect to compress I would start looking for the mistake I'd made. I'd start by looking for the notation in the manual.

I just saw this post which applies to the question I posted about the same time. Where do you see the compressed load markings? I'm using a 130 Accubond so am looking at page 320. I see the 62.0 gr load highlighted red as a max load but don't see the "C" indicator.

 

[msinc]

I have the Hornady manual; all the compressed loads I've used are marked as such in that manual.

If I felt a load compress that I didn't expect to compress I would start looking for the mistake I'd made. I'd start by looking for the notation in the manual.

This is correct...one thing that I have noted while reloading is that depending on the powder and case...not all cases have the same capacity on the inside...if the charge is not marked as a "compressed load" in the manual but it appears to be when you throw the powder in the case, try bumping or tapping the case head on the reloading bench a few times to help settle the powder. Some cartridges, like the 270, have a lot of loads listed that are real close to being a compressed load. Some turn into a compressed load because of the particular case you are using. This is why it is always best to start with a lesser charge and work up, always looking for signs of pressure as you go. Many times a given set of components wont show any pressure signs at all, but there might be that one combination that gets things a little hot.
I am sure some genius will come along in a few minutes and tell us all how tapping the charged case on the bench will cause some kind of problem, but I have been doing it since I started in 1980.

 

[jimbires]

I use a funnel with a drop tube . this helps settle the powder in the case . if the load is highly compressed it can push the bullet back out a little , changing your COAL . I recommend either measuring your COAL again the next day , or running them through the seating die again the next day . I have not had a problem of changing COAL after I reseated them . I had this problem years back when I was using IMR7828 in a 243 . now IMR sells IMR7828 and IMR7828ssc . sc means short cut . the shorter cut powder does not fill the case as full as the long cut does .

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/293879/forster-blue-ribbon-powder-funnel-with-long-drop-tube

 

[Mozella]

I just checked my Hornady manual, 9th edition, and to my surprise none of the loads are marked as compressed even though I know that some of the ones I use are indeed compressed. ALL my other references mark them with a "C". I also checked the Hodgdon on-line load calculator and, sure enough, it lists the max load (62gr) as a compressed load.

When working up a load I always cross check as many references as I can and more often than not the IMR/Hodgdon site proves to be helpful.

 

[dedogs]

Stick powder is bulky. There are 3 ways to mitigate this problem IF you determine that this is not a load that is too hot in YOUR rifle. As noted above, start with lowest charges and watch for pressure indicators. Then if your max load shoots ok and you want to use it:
1) Pour powder slowly into case letting it swirl as it moves through the funnel.
2) Get a drop tube and use it.
3) H4831 is available in a short cut form. H4831SC. Supposed to have the same burn rate as H4831.
Hope this helps. dedogs

 

[John Russell]

Thanks guys! I've heard the term compressed load but didn't make the connection until now with your explanations. Let me follow up with another question.

I have the Hornady Manual 9th edition and I don't see the "C" indication for this load. In fact, a quick run through the book and I don't see it used in load tables anywhere. Am I missing something? They highlight the max loads but make no distinction between a compressed vs non-compressed load.

I probably need to pick up another manual or two just have as additional references....

The same load can be compressed for one guy, and not compressed for another... especially with stick powders (like H-4831).

Many loaders use drop tubes or drop funnels, and that causes the powder to fill the case more densely... leaving more space for the bullet base.

A drop tube can give you ~ 5 to 10% more space in a case.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/293879/forster-blue-ribbon-powder-funnel-with-long-drop-tube

 

['Freak]

The swirl affect as will a lengthy drop allows the individual sticks of a stick powder to better orient amongst one another such that a greater volume can enter the case before reaching the point of too near an overfill.
I’m not finding indicators of ‘potentially a compressed charge’ in my Hornady 7th Edition; just more of a plenty good reasoning behind consulting multiple reloading manuals, the more the merrier.

 

[copperking81]

Thanks guys. Planning on picking up another manual or two and a drop tube as well.

 

[RonAKA]

Hodgdon Load Data shows 58 grains of H4831 to be a compressed load with a 140 grain bullet. Quite normal. Lighter bullets show up to 62 grains compressed as the max load.

 

[Rsadams]

Pick up a Speer manual they have the C for compressed loads noted. They also unlike the hornady have data listed for .223 loads useing magnum primers for ball powders that hornady doesn't.. It never hurts to have 2 or 3 manuals to cross reference and for different loads useing different powders etc.

Just a little money saving tip.. Since I only reload VERY common calibers I will wait till the newest edition comes out, then pick up the older manual cheap just to have as a reference.. If you need or want you can always buy the latest and greatest.. Dont forget about online data provided by the powder manufacturers.. Western powders the maker of TAC etc , has a great free load data catalog in PDF form...