Changing point of impact help needed

[Panama Evans]

Here's my problem
I have 2 matching savage 12F's in 6mm br Norma, and they both show the same problem. We sight in for a 600 yard shoot and we can hit a clay pigeon with no problem, but when we shoot at the target we show a point of impact that has dropped 1/4-1/2 moa drop. I shoot 6 rounds for sight in, but my 5 shoots were 1/2 moa low, yet they grouped 2-1/2 inches. My wife shoot maybe 10 rounds at sight in and her's were 1/4 moa low with a 3" group.
I'm thinking it has to do with the barrel heating up, but am looking for suggestions on how to solve the problem. The ranges we currently shoot at only allow us to see the results when the match is done, because seeing the holes is near impossible with a spotting scope. Eventually I'm going to get a bullseye spotting camera system. Next week I plan on using my ranges crony to see if my assumption the barrel heat is slowing the bullets down causing the problem. If that's the case then I'll need to see how to correct that.
A little info.
I use lapua brass with .002 neck tension
107 gr SMK's
30.8 grains varget
Bullets are on the lands
Rifles have 500 rounds down them and have only been shoot 3 times at 600 but the drop appears to be a consistent theme
So any testing to do, or other ideas would be wonderful since we are both new to the 600 with these rifles

 

[Fast14riot]

Try more fouling shots.

 

[Panama Evans]

Try more fouling shots.

That's one I hadn't thought of, but I've not cleaned these rifles in at least 100 rounds since we've shot them in two matches and did target practice for the past two weeks.

 

[savagedasher]

Here's my problem
I have 2 matching savage 12F's in 6mm br Norma, and they both show the same problem. We sight in for a 600 yard shoot and we can hit a clay pigeon with no problem, but when we shoot at the target we show a point of impact that has dropped 1/4-1/2 moa drop. I shoot 6 rounds for sight in, but my 5 shoots were 1/2 moa low, yet they grouped 2-1/2 inches. My wife shoot maybe 10 rounds at sight in and her's were 1/4 moa low with a 3" group.
I'm thinking it has to do with the barrel heating up, but am looking for suggestions on how to solve the problem. The ranges we currently shoot at only allow us to see the results when the match is done, because seeing the holes is near impossible with a spotting scope. Eventually I'm going to get a bullseye spotting camera system. Next week I plan on using my ranges crony to see if my assumption the barrel heat is slowing the bullets down causing the problem. If that's the case then I'll need to see how to correct that.
A little info.
I use lapua brass with .002 neck tension
107 gr SMK's
30.8 grains varget
Bullets are on the lands
Rifles have 500 rounds down them and have only been shoot 3 times at 600 but the drop appears to be a consistent theme
So any testing to do, or other ideas would be wonderful since we are both new to the 600 with these rifles

How far back is the clays? Larry

 

[Terry Altom]

I had a similar occurance at my first 600 yard IBS match. We used clays for sighters, but they were on the berm behind the targets a good 15 yards. No way to see just how high I was hitting until scoring at the end of the match. Next match, I had my rangefinder with me and better ballistic DOPE.

 

[expiper]

panamaw jack,,,,normally when clay birds are used for sighters ,they are on the berm in 8-10 yds infront of the targets,,,at 600 yds a dif. of ten yds is ~1/2 moa,,,the bullet is falling rapidly (really fast at 1000yds),,,dont just sit and pose with your new rifle,,you need to interact with other shooters at the match rather than us hicks on the internet,,,help in the target crew,,set flags,,move picninc tables around for loading,,,you wont have to ask much,,,most "good" shooters talk about what is going on with the weather and wind and conditions and the idiosyncrites of the range,,,,listen and learn,,,,sit around the camp fire at nite with them and you will get quite an education about shooting,,,Roger

 

[savagedasher]

panamaw jack,,,,normally when clay birds are used for sighters ,they are on the berm in 8-10 yds infront of the targets,,,at 600 yds a dif. of ten yds is ~1/2 moa,,,the bullet is falling rapidly (really fast at 1000yds),,,dont just sit and pose with your new rifle,,you need to interact with other shooters at the match rather than us hicks on the internet,,,help in the target crew,,set flags,,move picninc tables around for loading,,,you wont have to ask much,,,most "good" shooters talk about what is going on with the weather and wind and conditions and the idiosyncrites of the range,,,,listen and learn,,,,sit around the camp fire at nite with them and you will get quite an education about shooting,,,Roger

It not un comon for me to shoot in a different area from the top to bottom target depending on wind and mirage . Larry

 

[4xforfun]

So, are you hitting the clays DEAD center?? You may well be hitting the very bottom of the clay target and busting it, which is slightly over 4" in diameter.

I am not saying you don't have a problem....I spent years trying to figure out why i am not dead assed center of the 600/1000 yard record target when I bust clay after clay or, on steel, bang the same impact point time after time. I just never noticed that my record shots were ALWAYS low....they seemed to be high on one target and low (or left , or right) on another. No ryme or reason for it.

Good luck with that one!!

Tod

 

[expiper]

you guys are experiencing the beauty of a range that does not have pits and target pullers,,,there is no substitute for having the shots spotted on the very target board that you are going to shoot the record target on,,,most of these ranges that have poped up in the last 10yrs (thank God for them) are not or have not been completed or do not have the money$$$,,to do anything but lay clay birds on the ground and let us pop em,,,(I have more fun busting the birds than shooting the target,,haha),,,,a gong is the next best thing if it is at the same distance as the targets,,the splash will tell exact bullet strikes,,,,but never forget that we are shooting in conditions that are constantly changing (cross wind/headwind-temp-humidity-cloud cover-mirage-etc.etc.) you are literally shooting at a moving target out there,,,,it is more important to spend time observing and shooting in these conditions than countless hours pointing bullets and weighing powder to the milligram that become irrelevant when the conditions start to roll,,,,we must realize that this is something that you just cant plop down a pile of money$$ and win em all,,,,,Roger

 

[Panama Evans]

Wow that is a ton of info and after looking at our targets, as well as the two different ranges you gentlemen hit the nail in the peverbial head lol. I can see the wealth of information here I just what I needed. Now on doping our targets. Are there any words of wisdom you gentlemen can give me to help reduce any problems I may run into?

 

[4xforfun]

you guys are experiencing the beauty of a range that does not have pits and target pullers,,,there is no substitute for having the shots spotted on the very target board that you are going to shoot the record target on,,,most of these ranges that have poped up in the last 10yrs (thank God for them) are not or have not been completed or do not have the money$$$,,to do anything but lay clay birds on the ground and let us pop em,,,(I have more fun busting the birds than shooting the target,,haha),,,,a gong is the next best thing if it is at the same distance as the targets,,the splash will tell exact bullet strikes,,,,but never forget that we are shooting in conditions that are constantly changing (cross wind/headwind-temp-humidity-cloud cover-mirage-etc.etc.) you are literally shooting at a moving target out there,,,,it is more important to spend time observing and shooting in these conditions than countless hours pointing bullets and weighing powder to the milligram that become irrelevant when the conditions start to roll,,,,we must realize that this is something that you just cant plop down a pile of money$$ and win em all,,,,,Roger

Yah...well..I had troubles with live pits and spotters, too!!

 

[M14AMU]

With targets like onto this I don't even paint a bull; really easy to hold center by viewing four equal quadrants!

IMG_0704 by Sharps Man, on Flickr

I'm usually close to center....and just shoot at the black mark!! Easy to tell what you....and the rifle are doing!