Challenge to you gurus! Set up new Forster Ultra seater. Data/numbers here. WTHeck...

[Danattherock]

At work on cell. Site blocked on work PC.

Thanks. I did turn entire die back 5 turns. Trying to get back to quit cramming bullets entirely into cases. Ruined four. Tried turning stem back. Got it about half inch out and it seemed to be out far as it would go. Maybe this is culprit??

Might this faulty set up result in bullet being seated at two depths?

Off work soon. Want to figure this out. Can't stop thinking about it. No shooting today as planned. Will be better off in garage with iPad.

So start over. Back die out one turn after fully compressing spring. Then what? My stem up top didn't appear to back out but half inch or tad more. Micrometer was set on zero.

Thanks for any help. You guys are great. Sorry for short reply. At 6'6" 320 I can barely peck on this phone


Dan

 

[michaelnel]

Have you considered contacting Forster support?

 

[Danattherock]

Just emailed them my first post here.


Dan

 

[Danattherock]

Dan,
I re-read your post to make sure I understood it. If after your initial trial and error, you have the WHOLE DIE backed out 5 turns, then you don't have the die set up correctly and the sliding bushing is providing no support to the case at the bottom of the seating stoke. Go back to square 1 and reset the die to ONE TURN OUT. It sometimes helps, before locking it down, to put a flat washer between the die and the shell holder to take the lash out of the die body threads, then set your lock ring. Then use the adjustment on the seater stem to give you the longer initial seating depth you are looking for. The screw that forms the seater stem is longer than you think it is, and it has finer threads than the die body, so you have to turn it alot to gain length.

Elkbane

Thanks man. This could be the issue. I did back it out five turns, as I was seating bullets way too deep. Maybe I need to bring stem out more, but it appeared to be out far as it would go, over half inch. And bullets were going in way too deep still.

I'm going to garage to resize some lapua cases and prime and charge them. Will start from scratch with Forster seater die afterwards.

Any additional input greatly appreciated.


Dan

 

[barefooter56]

danttherock,
Since you are using an RCBS press and not the Forster that lets the die "float" and self center on the round. Try just backing out the lock ring screw to see if letting the die "float in the threads helps your run out issue. Do one cartridge case before and after you do the screw loosening. Also make sure you are checking your run out with the probe of the dial indicator on the bullet as close to the neck/bullet junction as you can get it without the probe touching the neck . Also make sure the dial indicator has been pre-loaded at least .010-.015 and re-zero the face. If loosening the lock ring screw does the trick. Get a rubber o-ring that will fit under the lock ring and re-adjust the die so it works like it does now without the o-ring being so compressed that die will not "float" in the threads. Forster dies are supposed to come with a seater stem that can be used with VLD and standard bullets BUT always check and make sure the tip of the bullet does NOT bottom out in the stem.
Take care!
Phil Hoham
Berger Bullet Tech

 

[37Lincoln1]

At work on cell. Site blocked on work PC.

Thanks. I did turn entire die back 5 turns. Trying to get back to quit cramming bullets entirely into cases. Ruined four. Tried turning stem back. Got it about half inch out and it seemed to be out far as it would go. Maybe this is culprit??

Might this faulty set up result in bullet being seated at two depths?

Off work soon. Want to figure this out. Can't stop thinking about it. No shooting today as planned. Will be better off in garage with iPad.

So start over. Back die out one turn after fully compressing spring. Then what? My stem up top didn't appear to back out but half inch or tad more. Micrometer was set on zero.

Thanks for any help. You guys are great. Sorry for short reply. At 6'6" 320 I can barely peck on this phone


Dan

Dan,

I just used a Forster ultra microseater die today and set it up for a new bullet. My seating stem had a lot of adjustment to it, in fact quite a bit had to be backed out for this particular bullet.

I know you probably did but I'll ask any way, did you back off the locking nut before trying to back out the seating stem?

 

[Danattherock]

Unlocked it. About how far out should stem extend? At max I mean. Mine was about half inch then started feeling tough. Didn't want to strip it or ruin it.

 

[padom]

I use the Forster Ultra Micrometer seating die in both .223 and .308 in an RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme. Every round I make produces .0015" or less run out measured on Hornady Lock-N-Load Concentricity tool. I do use the Forster FL sizing die on my cases bumping back 0.002".

If I'm reading your posts correctly you are not setting the die up properly. With the die removed, raise the shell holder to its highest position and hold it there. Screw die down until bushing compresses fully then I backed off 1/4-1/2 turn. Now lower shell holder. Now here is where I am not understanding what your doing. You need to do 2 things here. Turn to raise the bullet seating stem some (you will need to test how much) then raise the Micrometer head. That is 2 different adjustments. Back the micrometer head out a bunch. It doesn't sound like you are raising the Micrometer head and its turned all the way down. If you have raised both the seating stem and micrometer head then there is no way you could be seating bullets all the way down in the cases.

You don't want to twist the die out to adjust seating depth. You want the bearing sleeve to move with the shell as that's what keeps the case/bullet in alignment to produce virtually no run out. Like I said, I get between .0005-.0015 run out. Currently that's with once fired Hornady Match and FC .308 brass that is full length sized in Forster FL sizing die.

You should have received http://www.forsterproducts.com/client_images/catalog19938/pages/files/Ultra_Micrometer_Seater_Die.pdf with your seating die which walks you through how to set it up and identifies each component. If you still don't get it figured out maybe I will make you a YouTube video tomorrow on how to setup Forster Ultra Micrometer seating die properly.

Here's a Youtube video I did testing some factory FGMM and Southwest M118LR ammo run out and how it compared to my handloads made with the Forster Ultra FL sizing die and Micrometer seating die.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSmCqc9rMBA

 

[Danattherock]

danttherock,
Since you are using an RCBS press and not the Forster that lets the die "float" and self center on the round. Try just backing out the lock ring screw to see if letting the die "float in the threads helps your run out issue. Do one cartridge case before and after you do the screw loosening. Also make sure you are checking your run out with the probe of the dial indicator on the bullet as close to the neck/bullet junction as you can get it without the probe touching the neck . Also make sure the dial indicator has been pre-loaded at least .010-.015 and re-zero the face. If loosening the lock ring screw does the trick. Get a rubber o-ring that will fit under the lock ring and re-adjust the die so it works like it does now without the o-ring being so compressed that die will not "float" in the threads. Forster dies are supposed to come with a seater stem that can be used with VLD and standard bullets BUT always check and make sure the tip of the bullet does NOT bottom out in the stem.
Take care!
Phil Hoham
Berger Bullet Tech

Thanks. Will try the loose die. Read about o ring. Interesting.


Dan

 

[Danattherock]

I use the Forster Ultra Micrometer seating die in both .223 and .308 in an RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme. Every round I make produces .0015" or less run out measured on Hornady Lock-N-Load Concentricity tool. I do use the Forster FL sizing die on my cases bumping back 0.002".

If I'm reading your posts correctly you are not setting the die up properly. With the die removed, raise the shell holder to its highest position and hold it there. Screw die down until bushing compresses fully then I backed off 1/4-1/2 turn. Now lower shell holder. Now here is where I am not understanding what your doing. You need to do 2 things here. Turn to raise the bullet seating stem and raise the Micrometer head. That is 2 different adjustments. It doesn't sound like you are raising the Micrometer head and its turned all the way down. If you have raised both the seating stem and micrometer head then there is no way you could be seating bullets all the way down in the cases.

You don't want to twist the die out to adjust seating depth. You want the bearing sleeve to move with the shell as that's what keeps the case/bullet in alignment to produce virtually no run out. Like I said, I get between .0005-.0015 run out. Currently that's with once fired Hornady Match and FC .308 brass that is then full length sized in Forster FL sizing die.

You should have received http://www.forsterproducts.com/client_images/catalog19938/pages/files/Ultra_Micrometer_Seater_Die.pdf with your seating die which walks you through how to set it up and identifies each component. If you still don't get it figured out maybe I will make you a YouTube video today tomorrow on how to setup Forster Ultra Micrometer seating die properly.

Here's a Youtube video I did testing some factory FGMM and Southwest M118LR ammo run out and how it compared to my handloads made with the Forster Ultra FL sizing die and Micrometer seating die.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSmCqc9rMBA

Saw that video last night. Thank you. It sounds like the stem adjust out more than I thought. Mine came out about half inch. I left micrometer set on zero. Maybe this is where the wheels fell off. Based on what I saw, my only option was to back entire die out. Which took 3-4 additional turns before bullets stopped being grossly overseated.

Dan

 

[padom]

Also, did you disassemble your die and clean it as suggested by Forster before setting it up in your press for the first time? I cleaned mine with CLP then wipe it down good.

 

[Danattherock]

No. To do so would have required fully reading the directions :

But I will. Going in garage after dinner and not allowed to come out till issue resolved.



Dan

 

[37Lincoln1]

Unlocked it. About how far out should stem extend? At max I mean. Mine was about half inch then started feeling tough. Didn't want to strip it or ruin it.

Mine is for 308 and the stem is set just a bit more than 3/4" above the lock nut for this bullet, I backed it out more than that and then screwed it down until it set against my dummy round. That is what Forster describes as the "raw adjustment" then I used the micrometer for the "fine adjustment". The raw adjustment is close and I don't have to use the micrometer adjustment for much of an adjustment at all.

Ain't this fun?

 

[Danattherock]

Slamming pecker in door fun. Heading to garage now. Sounds like I only realized about half the adjustment potential of the stem. Babied it I guess.

 

[Danattherock]

Following Scott at Foresters excellent advice, I found the issue was the die. An issue with the seating stem being spread open and binding in the chamber. :-\

As I turn the seating stem, in or out, the silver chamber at bottom of die turns in or out as well. That's what threw me off and had me turning entire die out 4-5 x due to seating bullets way too deep I turned stem out and it retracted, entirely, the silver chamber up into the die body. Leaving the sleeve alone for my shell holder to hit. I turn micrometer, nothing moves, chamber.

But the silver chamber moves up and down directly proportionate with my turning the seating stem. Also notice just how hard the silver chamber is to push into the die, against the spring. But when I took micrometer all the way down, it was smoothly going up into the die body. I suspect that is how the silver chamber should normally function.

Forster rep Scott already said to send it back if this were the case. By the way, he replied to my first email today in 18 minutes!! I will find something else from Forster to buy, that's for sure. Suspect I will get far better results after this die takes a trip to Illinois. Thanks for all the insightful post here. I will read them all until they make sense.



Dan

 

[Dshooter]

Forester makes an amazing quality die, and as you found out, their customer service is best in the industry. If your looking to buy something else from them....buy their FL die. It has an o ring in between the locknut for the stem, and the cap. This allows the stem and expander ball to float in your case, self centering to your case neck. Therefore preventing the tweaking of necks, which usually results in excess runout