CCI 450 Magnum SRP in 38 special?

[ratbuster]

I realize this question is not really related to "Accurate Shooting" but am hoping someone on this forum has knowledge about this.

My daughter has a new 38 Special and wants to develop skills with the gun for self defense but what little ammo to be found is quite expensive. Looks like all the reloading components needed can be found except primers. I have lots of CCI 450's and upon searching I have found people who say it's ok to use the magnum rifle primers in pistol cases but others say NO.

I understand poor or no ignition is a possible problem (due to thickness of primer cup) depending on how robust the pistol strikes the primer.

Of course if doable it would require a careful load workup. I have extensive experience with rifle reloading but no pistol reloading experience. The tiny amount of powder spooks me a little bit.

If you have first hand knowledge on this I would love to hear from you.

Regards!

 

[6ShotsOr5?]

I realize this question is not really related to "Accurate Shooting" but am hoping someone on this forum has knowledge about this.

My daughter has a new 38 Special and wants to develop skills with the gun for self defense but what little ammo to be found is quite expensive. Looks like all the reloading components needed can be found except primers. I have lots of CCI 450's and upon searching I have found people who say it's ok to use the magnum rifle primers in pistol cases but others say NO.

I understand poor or no ignition is a possible problem (due to thickness of primer cup) depending on how robust the pistol strikes the primer.

Of course if doable it would require a careful load workup. I have extensive experience with rifle reloading but no pistol reloading experience. The tiny amount of powder spooks me a little bit.

If you have first hand knowledge on this I would love to hear from you.

Regards!

I don’t remember, but you might find what you need to know in this good thorough article,

Primers « Search Results « Daily Bulletin

bulletin.accurateshooter.com

 

[Rset]

offer to trade those 450's for some small pistol primers in your area and I bet you get a few takers.

 

[Oso]

During the last. great ammo shortage (post-Sandy Hook), a lot of reloaders learned to be creative and find workable combinations of primers and powders that were not the standard/traditional go-to recipes.

I did a primer test using small pistol primers along side small rifle primers for loading .223. What I found was that the small pistol primers were hotter than the small rifle and magnum small rifle primers, and provided an extra 50fps for a given load (as memory serves). There is no reason you can't use the CCI 450's in a pistol. Just be conservative with your powder charges and test the round before committing to a large reload run.

Additionally, a factory trigger should have no problem with the thicker rifle primer cup. This only can become a problem if a trigger job has been done on the pistol. My friend's competition revolver has been tuned so light that it now only work reliably with Federal magnum primers... super soft metal primer. Again, this is something you can easily test for with a small batch of reloads.

 

[ratbuster]

During the last. great ammo shortage (post-Sandy Hook), a lot of reloaders learned to be creative and find workable combinations of primers and powders that were not the standard/traditional go-to recipes.

I did a primer test using small pistol primers along side small rifle primers for loading .223. What I found was that the small pistol primers were hotter than the small rifle and magnum small rifle primers, and provided an extra 50fps for a given load (as memory serves). There is no reason you can't use the CCI 450's in a pistol. Just be conservative with your powder charges and test the round before committing to a large reload run.

Additionally, a factory trigger should have no problem with the thicker rifle primer cup. This only can become a problem if a trigger job has been done on the pistol. My friend's competition revolver has been tuned so light that it now only work reliably with Federal magnum primers... super soft metal primer. Again, this is something you can easily test for with a small batch of reloads.

I think you are correct but will first try a trade as suggested by Rset. If I can't find anyone I will cautiously proceed with the 450's.

 

[Caveman Jim]

This may explain the difference.

 

[riflewoman]

In multiples tests, the velocity (and resulting pressure differential) difference between small rifle primers and pistol primers is negligible. So, as long as you don’t load maximum charges it should be ok.

However the next bear is setting them off. 450s are built for AR rifles which have a thicker cup. Some revolvers are thin on the firing pin energy and may not reliably ignite small rifle primers. Have to try them and see.

 

[SecondsCount]

Riflewoman makes a good point about cup thickness.

 

[Conaso]

Riflewoman - I believe your statement: "450s are built for AR rifles which have a thicker cup." is somewhat incorrect.

CCI 450 primers are not made for AR rifles. CCI #41 and #34 commercial versions of the fully-qualified DOD primer for use in U.S. military ammo. With this primer there is more 'distance' between the tip of the anvil and the bottom of the cup than with other CCI SR primers. In 1994, CCI introduced the No. 34 [large rifle] and No. 41 [small rifle] primers for military semi-auto rifles... No. 34 primers are recommended for reloading 7.62mm NATO, 30-06 and 7.62x39 ammo for military semi-auto firearms. The appropriate primer for an AR15 platform is the CCI #41 primer, which helps to prevent slamfires. No. 34 and No. 41 primers feature mil-spec sensitivity to minimize slam-fires. CCI #450 have the same thicker .025" cup as the BR4 and #41 primers, #41 same primer composition as CCI #450.

Cases that utilize small rifle primers and operate at moderate pressures (40,000 psi) should use CCI 400.
Cases that utilize small rifle primers and operate at higher pressures (55,000 psi) should use CCI 450

 

[ARK]

When I was shooting IPSC with major PF in 38 Super ( 125 gr,1350 FPS) we using small rifle primers with no issues. Saying that, I would trade 450 for some pistol primers unless your daughter is shooting IPSC/USPSA major power factors.

 

[Twicepop]

I read someplace (maybe here) that CCI Small Pistol Magnum (550) and CCI Small Rifle(400) are the same primer. The 450 has a thicker cup as previously stated and have either more priming compound or a hotter priming compound, it changed several years back and I don't recall which it is now. I personally wouldn't use 450s in a cartridge that is only designed to be at 17,500 and 20,000psi respectively for standard and Plus P loadings.

 

[MGYSGT]

Prime some cartridges with out powder or bullet and see if your gun is powerful enough to set them off. I have a friend who uses nothing else in his revolver because small pistol primers were too hard to get.

 

[andym686]

I primed some .38 special cases with Federal GM small rifle primers, and proceeded to get them mixed in with the others with the small pistol primers. (Hey - The Federal boxes were exactly the same color).
I wasn't going to waste them, so they became practice ammo.
Like the other posters have said, they won't work with light strikes, but they do fine.
My old PPC revolver won't reliably set them off.

 

[jcm800]

Double action has a shorter hammer fall than single so try it both ways.
My J frame could only use 6 1/2's, where the glocks would set off anything short of a 41.

 

[farmerjohn]

Personal experience, I have loaded hundreds if not thousands of 38s and 357s both light and heavy loads, lead and copper and use them in a lever action rifle and my 686 smith as well as the K mod smiths with both cci 450s , tula, and wolf with no misfires or difference on the chronograph between small pistol mag and small rifle mag primers, just my experience, John