Cast bullets for 45-70

[hogwild469]

I will be loading 405 grain cast bullets for my .45-70. Do I HAVE to put a gas check on the bullet? I will be loading 3031 powder.

Also does anyone know what kind of "kill performance" a cast bullet has over a jacketed hollow point? This gun is used primarly for bear and deer, shots taken are within 100 yards.

Thanks

 

[jonbearman]

It depends on what type of bullet and how hot you intend to shoot them.Give us the load and feet per second.I have shot tons of lead(cast) bullets without ever using a gas check.If you stick to trapdoor loads which are plenty powerful enough to kill any bear or deer,then you are good to go in my opinion.

 

[Eddie Harren]

The composition of your alloy will have a lot to do with it also. I'm sure Jon has a lot more experience than I do but, the hardness of your bullets and the proper sizing of them is very important, when shooting cast bullets, with or without gas checks.

 

[WindSurgeon]

On average, the expansion on the lead cast bullets will be much less controlled than a hollow point design. The cast bullet will simply flatten at best while the hollow point will have a more controlled expansion and open up like a mushroom or flower (depending on the design). My 2 cents worth of hunting experience with primitive arms informs me that any well placed shot will kill an animal quickly and the form or metalergy of a bullet matters less than the shot placement and accuracy. The animals deserve the best we can use to kill them, so I would recommend using a jacketed hunting design bullet over a cast bullet. Whether a Jacketed hollow point or a soft point, probably does not matter. Shoot whatever is most accurate, but shoot strait and within your capable range.

 

[2506]

If your bullet is the the flat nose style like the Lyman #457193 it does cut a hole instead of just parting muscle like round nose designs do. I have killed a few deer with this bullet cast from wheel weights and it came out average 418 grs. I have used AA5744 28 grs and 70 grs FFG black powder and they shoot to the same point of impact in my Sharps rifle. I have never used a gas check because first of all this bullet is not made to use one and second I have never seen the need at the velocity these are going which is around 1400 fps. Both loads are pretty accurate. Either load will zip through a deer from any direction and keep going at 100 yards. Unless you hit shoulder bone deer tend to run off a ways before they bleed out and their brain tells them that they have no lungs. If you get the 300 gr Hornady or Sierra JHP going 1600+ fps it makes a really good deer smacker and you don't have to do much tracking and if you do Ray Charles could do it there will be so much blood. The Hornady 350 gr RN bullet is a tougher bullet and would be my choice for bear and larger game where I would want to break bone. If you put one through the front shoulders of a bear he is done for.
With the cast bullet it will kill but it does not have the shock that the JHP or JSP will have because they disrupt more tissue. Like I said the heavy cast bullets will penetrate and they don't have to be going too fast to do it either so be aware of this if you use them on bear where dogs are around. I once shot a deer at 111 yards that was facing me. I aimed for the white spot on it's chest. I was shooting 70 grs BP and the Lyman # 457193 bullet. Before the bullet got to the deer it put it's head down. The bullet struck it between the eyes made saw dust out of it's spine in the neck deflected off something and came out tight behind it's left shoulder. Then it went through it's left back leg just above the knee joint completely shooting off the leg. Then it hit the hard packed logging road and looked like a mole had gone up the road for about 10 yards then it came out of the ground and went through a 4" thick tree and I don't know where it went from there.

 

[Forester]

There is a lot of science and some conjecture to about cast bullet performance. A wide meplat, heavy, cast bullet will kill as surely as any typical hunting bullet, I think it is because the amount of energy transferred to the animal is so extreme.

Expansion can be controlled with the alloy the bullet is made of, for hunting harder is not always better. Think of it as the reverse of a long range hunting bullet. If you push them fast you need a harder alloy, that is fine until the range gets to far and they don't expand at all. If you push them slower and can use a softer alloy then the bullets effective range is increased because it is essentially a lighter construction. Of course that slow bullet loses out in the trajectory and wind department, but there is no free lunch.

As far as a gas check goes, they are a great help when you want to push a soft alloy bullet faster than is ideal. A correctly sized hard cast bullet can be pushed pretty darn fast without a gas check.

A word about sizing, IMO this is the most important, and most overlooked aspect of cast bullet shooting. You need to slug your bore and find out exactly what diameter the bullet needs to be. This is especially true when using a harder bullet that will not obturate as readily as a softer alloy.

For more reading than you ever probably wanted, and guys that know cast bullets better than they know their family check out http://castboolits.gunloads.com/