Can Barrel Droop Be a Problem?

['Freak]

I said that when there’s barrel contact, harmonics will be different compared to that same barrel hung in free float. Different is not always a bad thing, just different. Inconsistency in shootin’ can’t be a good thing, but there can be circumstances where the cause and effect is so little that an inconsistency might go unnoticed.

 

[JRS]

Would you be so kind, and explain that to Al Warner, and tell him how he screwed up my 1000 yard gun please? Is a barrel block not inducing stress also?

Hard to argue against someone who has shattered all existing records using a Warner build. :

If the OP would contact a few accuracy gunsmiths : LH, i'm sure his questions would be answered. Don't embarrass yourself again LH ;D If you aren't aware of it LH, WTC built guns have been in the hands of more than one winner Hopefully, that will be extended to me

 

[LHSmith]

Awfully difficult to win matches if one doesn't attend them. Just by dumb luck should you win one, you should be proud of yourself for doing it the hard way.....with a prowed bedding job.

 

[JRS]

Awfully difficult to win matches if one doesn't attend them. Just by dumb luck should you win one, you should be proud of yourself for doing it the hard way.....with a prowed bedding job.

You're right about that :-[

Part of an article from the McMillan's:

"A small amount of bedding under the cylinder of a long heavy barrel is a time proven method to help dampen barrel vibrations before it reaches the barrel threads in the receiver, gives additional support for the weight of the barrel and helps to relieve stress placed on the receiver screws".

 

[joshb]

A while ago, I got an old FN actioned single shot varmint gun, with a barrel as you describe. It shoots in the high 3 to mid 4s. The barrel is bedded fully into the foot or so of the stock, in front of the action. I paid $700 for the gun. I don't expect it to ever shoot like a custom bench gun, so I just enjoy it as is. Messing with a nice production, possible collector gun, may/will reduce it's value. I'd shoot it and see what it'll do.

 

[South Pender]

Part of an article from the McMillan's:

"A small amount of bedding under the cylinder of a long heavy barrel is a time proven method to help dampen barrel vibrations before it reaches the barrel threads in the receiver, gives additional support for the weight of the barrel and helps to relieve stress placed on the receiver screws".

Bingo!

 

[LHSmith]

Part of an article from the McMillan's:

"A small amount of bedding under the cylinder of a long heavy barrel is a time proven method to help dampen barrel vibrations before it reaches the barrel threads in the receiver, gives additional support for the weight of the barrel and helps to relieve stress placed on the receiver screws".

Bingo!

That theory sounds great....it supports what you wanted to hear. Problem is on the current McMillan website under FAQ is this: Q. Do you recommend barrel bedding or pressure points? A. 98% of the rifles are most accurate when free floated. If you want to take this to mean only 2% of the stocks McMillan sells are built for heavy barrel rifles ...feel free to do so.
Odds are with a factory rifle it will be difficult to discern any accuracy difference whether bedding the first inch of barrel or not. I removed the 1" of bedding from my previously bedded HV BR rifle using an Edge stock and accuracy was improved , albeit subtle. However in BR competition one needs to gain every last bit of additional accuracy since 0.001" can be the difference in garnering shooter points.

 

['Freak]

Awfully difficult to win matches if one doesn't attend them. Just by dumb luck should you win one, you should be proud of yourself for doing it the hard way.....with a prowed bedding job.

You're right about that :-[

Part of an article from the McMillan's:

"A small amount of bedding under the cylinder of a long heavy barrel is a time proven method to help dampen barrel vibrations before it reaches the barrel threads in the receiver, gives additional support for the weight of the barrel and helps to relieve stress placed on the receiver screws".

So, when vertical stringing is observed and seems it’s connected in some way with the barrel heating up, and then the vertical stringing goes away soon as all these folk grind the bedding back out from underneath their barrels, reckon all of ‘em, including myself, got to be hallucinating...

 

[South Pender]

Part of an article from the McMillan's:

"A small amount of bedding under the cylinder of a long heavy barrel is a time proven method to help dampen barrel vibrations before it reaches the barrel threads in the receiver, gives additional support for the weight of the barrel and helps to relieve stress placed on the receiver screws".

Bingo!

That theory sounds great....it supports what you wanted to hear. Problem is on the current McMillan website under FAQ is this: Q. Do you recommend barrel bedding or pressure points? A. 98% of the rifles are most accurate when free floated. If you want to take this to mean only 2% of the stocks McMillan sells are built for heavy barrel rifles ...feel free to do so.
Odds are with a factory rifle it will be difficult to discern any accuracy difference whether bedding the first inch of barrel or not. I removed the 1" of bedding from my previously bedded HV BR rifle using an Edge stock and accuracy was improved , albeit subtle. However in BR competition one needs to gain every last bit of additional accuracy since 0.001" can be the difference in garnering shooter points.

Well, there seem to be legitimate differences of opinion on this issue. As for the McMillan answer to the question, one would have to know exactly what was meant by the term "free-floating." Perhaps the person answering the question was understanding "barrel bedding" as bedding the entire barrel. We really don't know. So it seems to me that the answer provided doesn't really address the question of bedding, say, only 1.0" of the barrel.

 

[M14AMU]

Hold closer!

 

[Greyfox]

I may have missed it, but something that hasn't been addressed is the fact the a "heavy barreled" Sako" isn't really very heavy. Sako engineered that barrel to work with that rifle. As I think I said before, this is arguably the most accurate factory rifle ever manufactured. Personally, I wouldn't think it wise to tinker with it unless you just chose to pillar bed the action. True heavy barrels are significantly larger that the Sako in question especially when you consider length. I think we're arguing about a problem that doesn't exist.

On another note, in my experience, vertical stringing has more to do with an out of tune load than other factors. Of course, that's assuming the rifle is accurate and the shooter is proficient. Also, the use of wind flags will uncover a lot of things that many people think has do to with the rifle or their lack of skill.

YMMV,
Rick

 

[South Pender]

I may have missed it, but something that hasn't been addressed is the fact the a "heavy barreled" Sako" isn't really very heavy. Sako engineered that barrel to work with that rifle. As I think I said before, this is arguably the most accurate factory rifle ever manufactured. Personally, I wouldn't think it wise to tinker with it unless you just chose to pillar bed the action. True heavy barrels are significantly larger that the Sako in question especially when you consider length. I think we're arguing about a problem that doesn't exist.

Not sure what you're recommending. Are you thinking that I should just leave it as it is with wood action bedding, and a free-floating barrel, but with the contact at the forend? Or to pillar-bed the action, but leave the contact points at the forend? The barrel seems pretty heavy, at least by my standards, mic'ing about .86 at the muzzle and 24" length. When I put this out to some on the Sako Collectors site, the consensus was to leave it completely alone, echoing your point about Sako knowing what they were doing when they put the rifle together with forend contact. On the other hand, we have the almost-universal consensus that completely free-floated barrels are necessary for best accuracy.

 

[Greyfox]

I don't shoot hunting style stocks very well, so I didn't compete in Factory class particularly well using the Sako. However, the fellow that bought it did shoot very well and another gentleman who competes with us shoots his excellently. Were I you, I would probably see what it will do as is. If you aren't satisfied, you might have a competent, benchrest gunsmith add pillars and bed the action. A 24" .86 barrel really isn't that heavy, as I said. Now if we were talking about 1" or 1.25", maybe 28"-30", that would be heavy and I wouldn't argue with something under the barrel. I don't care for pressure points myself, but Sako must have thought it would work.
Try it and see before you make changes.

I shoot an XP 100 action in an old McMillan benchrest stock with a full bull 1" barrel it measures 24" in length. The stock is pillared and well bedded. I have never had a problem and if fact, this rifle holds the 200 yd record in Ultimate Benchrest. If you need the name of an excellent smith to do the stock work I can make a recommendation. You can get me by private message or email.

Rick

 

[LHSmith]

Simple logic tells me to shoot the rifle the way it is to establish an accuracy baseline first ....trying different torque values on the screws. Sako engineers must have done their homework well since Benchrest competitors hold them in such high regard as they seem to dominate factory class competitions.