CAM OVER

[Metal God]

The reason I don't use competition shell holders is cost. The Shims are much cheaper and I'd have to purchase two set of comp shell holders, one for 223 class cartridges and one for 243 /308 cartridges. But if money is no concern they by all means go with the comp shell holders.

That sounds reasonable . I was thinking the shims were used between the die and shell holder to make sure you still made firm contact while adjusting for case head space . As far as cost , for me the comp shell holders may be the best money spent to date on reloading components . That is , of the components you don't actually need . We all use all kinds of stuff we don't really need to reload . These less mandatory things just make things easier , faster , more precise etc . I have so many of these things that I use far less . Primer pocket uniformers , swager , concentricity gauge , cartridge gauges , powder measures , seater dies , crimp dies , standard dies , bushing dies , bushings , presses etc etc etc etc etc . Oh man If I could go back and start over I'd save SO MUCH money

 

[BountyHunter]

Even with those one should be camming over for consistency.

Redding's instructions say "The shellholder should be adjusted to make firm contact with the bottom of the sizing die". I take that as a subtle hint.
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Continue reading their instructions and they also tell you if you want best accuracy to back the die off and slowly work down until you get the bump you need. All the way to contact puts you at saami so all rounds will load in any chamber

 

[Brians356]

Continue reading their instructions and they also tell you if you want best accuracy to back the die off and slowly work down until you get the bump you need. All the way to contact puts you at saami so all rounds will load in any chamber

Your comment "puts you at SAAMI" might apply to the Redding standard shell holder. Once you select one of the non-standard offset (+002, +004, etc) shell holders in the Redding Competition set, that couldn't apply. The instructions for those state "adjust the die for firm contact with the shell holder" for any of the set of five.
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[dcali]

This isn't something I worry about excessively. I always size with a gap, and after a firing or two, the cases come out pretty consistently. Is +/-.0005" really necessary? Are we lying to ourselves when we think we achieve that? Do you ever wonder why we shooters tend to do things as precisely as our measuring tools will allow, rather than as precisely as needed?

 

[B23]

This isn't something I worry about excessively. I always size with a gap, and after a firing or two, the cases come out pretty consistently. Is +/-.0005" really necessary? Are we lying to ourselves when we think we achieve that? Do you ever wonder why we shooters tend to do things as precisely as our measuring tools will allow, rather than as precisely as needed?

You make a very good point and it reminds me of something the gunsmith that built my very first rifle for me said, "you can make this game as easy or as difficult as you want". That was many years ago and at the time I really didn't fully get the meaning. Fast forward to now and I catch myself hearing his words in my head as I'm reloading and wondering what you describe.

I rationalize it with myself that by, trying, to be so precise and exact about everything it's a process of eliminating as many of the human variables as I can.

 

[dcali]

You make a very good point and it reminds me of something the gunsmith that built my very first rifle for me said, "you can make this game as easy or as difficult as you want". That was many years ago and at the time I really didn't fully get the meaning. Fast forward to now and I catch myself hearing his words in my head as I'm reloading and wondering what you describe.

I rationalize it with myself that by, trying, to be so precise and exact about everything it's a process of eliminating as many of the human variables as I can.

I get the urge. So much of what we do is fuzzy in terms of what matters, so the simple thing to make everything as good as we can. I don't have time for that, personally. Nobody cared about weighing charges so carefully until the relatively affordable FX-120i was discovered. Would we care about turning necks to a tenth if tube mics weren't so accurate? Not so sure. For me, most of the fun of this is figuring out what works and why - so I don't have to do everything so damn carefully and I can concentrate on things where it matters. Now ask me what matters? No idea.

 

[B23]

Now ask me what matters? No idea.

Oh, I think it all "matters" to some degree. It's to what extent that it matters, now that's the quandary.

 

[Brians356]

This isn't something I worry about excessively. I always size with a gap, and after a firing or two, the cases come out pretty consistently. Is +/-.0005" really necessary? Are we lying to ourselves when we think we achieve that? Do you ever wonder why we shooters tend to do things as precisely as our measuring tools will allow, rather than as precisely as needed?

Agree. Which is why Redding's 0.002" step in their Competition Shell Holders is fine enough. Applying a consistent 1/8 turn die engagement and camming over yields predictable and repeatable results for me, but not the fine incremental control others may seek.
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[Dusty Stevens]

Agree. Which is why Redding's 0.002" step in their Competition Shell Holders is fine enough. Applying a consistent 1/8 turn die engagement and camming over yields predictable and repeatable results for me, but not the fine incremental control others may seek.
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Those others seek the pma die adjuster or the whidden click adjust. Both of those are top notch. Any of them require a feel in your gun and once you get that feel youll simplify your life with yet another unused box in the drawer. Its like using one of those comparator cases on the stick then realizing you already have everything you need to do that comparison even easier- another tool in the drawer

 

[Brians356]

Those others seek the pma die adjuster or the whidden click adjust. Both of those are top notch. Any of them require a feel in your gun and once you get that feel youll simplify your life with yet another unused box in the drawer. Its like using one of those comparator cases on the stick then realizing you already have everything you need to do that comparison even easier- another tool in the drawer

But he who dies with the most tools wins, I thought.
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[Dusty Stevens]

But he who dies with the most tools wins, I thought.
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Thats what i thought, now im drowning in it

 

[BDman]

I can get most pieces of brass to bump to +/- .0005 but the occasional whacky piece that won't bump much without changing die setting or bumps back .003 more than every other piece. A friend of mine who does BR shooting and uses custom dies, top quality brass and AMP anneals - finds the same thing. He says to toss those pieces. I've not found them to affect my groups but I "settle" for anything sub half moa.

 

[Brians356]

Thats what i thought, now im drowning in it

I guess that's the "dies" part.
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[K22]

That sounds reasonable . I was thinking the shims were used between the die and shell holder to make sure you still made firm contact while adjusting for case head space . As far as cost , for me the comp shell holders may be the best money spent to date on reloading components . That is , of the components you don't actually need . We all use all kinds of stuff we don't really need to reload . These less mandatory things just make things easier , faster , more precise etc . I have so many of these things that I use far less . Primer pocket uniformers , swager , concentricity gauge , cartridge gauges , powder measures , seater dies , crimp dies , standard dies , bushing dies , bushings , presses etc etc etc etc etc . Oh man If I could go back and start over I'd save SO MUCH money

Skips shims work much like competition shell holder in the sense that they allow you to adjust the amount of sizing without changing the lock ring if you initially set the die up correctly with them. However I agree, the competition shell holders are the way to go if you don't mind spending the extra money.

If I was younger I would "bite the bullet" and buy them but since I probably don't have that many year remaining the shims are a cost effective alternative that work for me.

When I first started reloading back in the late 60's the only guidance I had was the Lyman Manual - Living in a very rural area I self taught myself and as you might imagine made a lot of mistakes but none costly. This was before social media and I learned the hard way - making mistakes but amazingly the ammo (rifle then pistol later) I produced performed well enough - probably just blind luck. I started with the 243 Win then moved to the 357 Magnum then expanded to many other calibers later.

Young guys today have the benefit of web sites like this and a lot of excellent reference material but there is nothing like learning from a seasoned competitive target shooter to guide you in the right direction. I was lucky, I found such a person at one of the clubs I belonged who was kind enough to help me learn the finer points of producing precision reloads.