bushing neck die or bushing full length die

[spencerhenry]

I have a full length 22-250 die, a lee. I have a redding competition neck die in 22-250AI. I had been using my AI die to neck size regular 22-250 brass. But, I had a few that wouldn't chamber. I first attributed it to range pick up brass, but then realized that it was probably because the AI die does not support the case at all and who knows how the case moved after annealing and neck sizing.
So, I thought I would get a bushing neck die, but then wondered why not get a full length bushing die and just back it off enough not to move the shoulder.
Any reason not to go with a full length die? Anyone have one they want to part with?

 

[dkhunt14]

I full length size every time. I bump the shoulder .001 to .002 on most cartridges. I feel it is best because now they will chamber and extract. I think it gives better accuracy and brass life with minimal shoulder bump is good. Matt

 

[Cuando]

Personally, if given a choice, I'll take the full length die every time. It'll do everything I need done in one pass.

 

[nmkid]

I use nothing but Redding FL Bushing dies. They work for me.

 

[Just Dave]

Send your full length die , along with a few fired cases to get it converted to a bushing type die.. best of both worlds.

 

[Just Dave]

JLC Precision out of Bellevue Iowa.. very reasonable and precise.

 

[LHSmith]

Send your full length die , along with a few fired cases to get it converted to a bushing type die.. best of both worlds.

I wouldn't send in a $10 Lee die for conversion.

 

[Just Dave]

I wouldn't send in a $10 Lee die for conversion.

. Missed that part. Lol,. No I wouldn't either.

 

[dgeesaman]

I'm pondering the same things.

Would a Redding Type S full length bushing die be "worthy" of grinding to sized brass dimensions?

David

 

[LHSmith]

I'm pondering the same things.

Would a Redding Type S full length bushing die be "worthy" of grinding to sized brass dimensions?

David

Sizing dies are hardened. If they could be re-ground they would have to be re-hardened and that usually alters the machined-to dimensions. IMHO not a practical option.

 

[Richard Coody]

either get a honed forster full length die

or for the best. expensive but well worth it. won't overwork your brass
http://www.whiddengunworks.com/custom-reloading-dies/

 

[MagnumManiac]

The best ammunition in the world is FL sized day after day.
I have Forster FL Match Bushing dies and Forster FL dies. I have moved away from bushings, however I do hone the necks when required to suit what I want.
I use everyday RCBS FL die sets that are neck honed to be .0015” -.0025” smaller than what I want, then the lubed polished expander that is .0005” bigger is drawn through so my necks are ROUND.
My necks don’t get moved, by chamber or sizing by .003”-.004” EVER.
Now, the same is true of the body, very little of it is moved and not much, if any, trimming is required.
I find much better accuracy with a looser fit in the chamber, some will argue differently.

Cheers.

 

[Bart B.]

I find much better accuracy with a looser fit in the chamber, some will argue differently.

Thats very important because few cases are perfectly round. A thousandth or two clearance from case to chamber when fired doesn't matter.

Of course, some case contact with the chamber happens. Rimless case shoulders will touch and center in chamber shoulders. And the case pressure ring is usually against the chamber while the case head is a couple thousandths off the bolt face. These are very repeatable from shot to shot.

 

[LHSmith]

Thats very important because few cases are perfectly round. A thousandth or two clearance from case to chamber when fired doesn't matter.

I would agree that unfired brass will occssionally show concentricity issues. But once fired with a stout load, if a case measures out of round you likely have an eccentric chamber.

 

[Bart B.]

Even with cases with uneven wall thickness around them?

Here's two views of the same out of round 308 Win case. Right one shows the pressure ring a couple thousandths out from the main case head diameter. Left one is the opposite side of the the case showing it flush.

Does that happen when body wall is different thickness all the way around?

Or when the chamber is out of round?

Or that case was resting on the bottom of the chamber (at the point where "BR" is on its headstamp is shown in the right picture) when fired and its side at the top of the chamber expanded?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Even with cases with uneven wall thickness around them?

Here's two views of the same out of round case. Right one shows the pressure ring a couple thousandths out from the main case head diameter. Left one is the opposite side of the the case showing it flush.

Does that happen when body wall is different thickness all the way around?

Or when the chamber is out of round?

Or that case was resting on the bottom of the chamber (at the point where "BR" is on its headstamp is shown in the right picture) when fired and its side at the top of the chamber expanded?

View attachment 1038062

I think what youre seeing is the fine quality of remington BR brass possibly shot out of a BR lapua chamber. looks like typical flash hole centering too.

 

[Bart B.]

I think what youre seeing is the fine quality of remington BR brass possibly shot out of a BR lapua chamber. looks like typical flash hole centering too.

I'm seeing what about 6% of that 350 round lot of once fired cases look like. The other 94% had the pressure ring equal height all around the case. All fired in a SAAMI spec chamber.

 

[fredo]

But, I had a few that wouldn't chamber. I first attributed it to range pick up brass, but then realized that it was probably because the AI die does not support the case at all and who knows how the case moved after annealing and neck sizing.

If you thought that neck sizing "range pickup brass" that was shot in someone else's rifle was a good idea, you just found out why it isn't...

Use a FL die (bushing or standard), and use your rifle as the 'gauge'. I.E., set the die accordingly so that a case will chamber without draggin' the bolt upon closing...

From there, on out, you can use the appropriate bushing, and 'bump' the shoulder back a couple thou....

Just sayin', if your using brass of 'unknown' origin...FULL LENGTH SIZE! And let YOUR RIFLE be the 'gauge'...

Have fun!

 

[Bart B.]

So, I thought I would get a bushing neck die, but then wondered why not get a full length bushing die and just back it off enough not to move the shoulder.

You'll have to set the die to set the case shoulder back as it starts moving forward as the full length sizing die squeezes down the case body.

A case headspace gauge measuring the case can tell you when sized case headspace equals what it was after firing.

 

[MagnumManiac]

Talking of wall thickness, unfortunately, even in perfectly controlled dies, the drawing/forging process often causes a wall that is thicker on one side than the other.
I worked for ADI here in Australia making powder and brass used for their military ammo.
The brass always had a thin wall and a thicker wall, no matter how tight the tolerance in the drawing dies.
I was told why this happened, but it escapes me now.
Even Lapua brass I sectioned was thinner on one side, the only difference to other brands was the fact it was less difference.

Cheers.