Bushing dies in progressive press?

[Daddycaddie67]

Started loading for a 20 practical and thought why not set up on my Hornady progressive press? Problem I’m running into is I can’t get the die’s to size the necks down far enough to get the case to chamber. I can set the die’s up on my single stage press and get it sized down enough to chamber. I’m sizing first with a RCBS fl die with the mandrel removed then a redding n/fl die with .233 bushing followed by a Redding b/fl die with a .225 bushing. Anyone have this problem with progressive presses? Suggestions?

 

[David Christian]

I don’t use a Hornady progressive, but with my Dillons I have shaved most of my dies.

 

[mac86951]

Started loading for a 20 practical and thought why not set up on my Hornady progressive press? Problem I’m running into is I can’t get the die’s to size the necks down far enough to get the case to chamber. I can set the die’s up on my single stage press and get it sized down enough to chamber. I’m sizing first with a RCBS fl die with the mandrel removed then a redding n/fl die with .233 bushing followed by a Redding b/fl die with a .225 bushing. Anyone have this problem with progressive presses? Suggestions?

+1 I've had a few dies that just don't work well in the LnL AP. For single stage, you can find reduced deck shell holders. Unfortunately the solutions tend to be to trim the die or try another manufacturer.

Curious though that your single stage isn't doing it either.

-Mac

 

[Daddycaddie67]

How much would you take off, .050”? E

 

[rwj]

Is the chambering problem being caused by neck diameter, shoulder datum offset from the base, and/or case diameter at the .200 line? The root cause(s) need to be identified before taking any corrective actions.

 

[spclark]

if the AP does and the single-stage doesn't – using the very same dies – I'd venture it's the AP's shell plate causing the issue. Measure deck height of AP shell plate to case head's shelf at bottom of rim groove & compare to comparable dimension of the SS shell holder you're using.

Difference ought to give you an idea of what needs to come off the bottom of your die(s).

 

[Daddycaddie67]

SS does, LNL doesn’t. Measuring the difference I come up w .006”-.007” difference. The line is from chambering in the AR. E

 

[Daddycaddie67]

Is the chambering problem being caused by neck diameter, shoulder datum offset from the base, and/or case diameter at the .200 line? The root cause(s) need to be identified before taking any corrective actions.

To me it looks like the neck wasn’t being sized down far enough to the neck shoulder junction to allow chambering( bolt in battery) using the SS press I can get it down enough to chamber. On both presses the die’s were screwed down to where they were just touching the shell holder/plate and very little clearance at the bushing. And to be clear I’m sizing .223 brass down to 20 cal in three passes. E

 

[mac86951]

Out of curiosity, does the mouth of the die fit within the relief of the shell plate? Maybe the die length is fine, but the shell plate isn't clearanced for the outer diameter of the die body?

 

[rwj]

To me it looks like the neck wasn’t being sized down far enough to the neck shoulder junction to allow chambering( bolt in battery) using the SS press I can get it down enough to chamber. On both presses the die’s were screwed down to where they were just touching the shell holder/plate and very little clearance at the bushing. And to be clear I’m sizing .223 brass down to 20 cal in three passes. E

SS does, LNL doesn’t. Measuring the difference I come up w .006”-.007” difference. The line is from chambering in the AR. E

Can you slide a .006”/.007” shim under the case head when it’s placed in the LNL shell holder slot? If yes, and this resolves the chambering issue after sizing, you can either remove material from the top of the shell holder or die face. I’d choose the shell holder as it’s softer and less expensive.

 

[Daddycaddie67]

Out of curiosity, does the mouth of the die fit within the relief of the shell plate? Maybe the die length is fine, but the shell plate isn't clearanced for the outer diameter of the die body?

No, it goes all the way to the shell plate. E

 

[spclark]

Do cases sized as in your two pictures chamber fully 'in battery' in your AR?

You may not need to get to the point where neck-sized cases are neck-sized all the way down to the neck/shoulder transition if they chamber fine already. Gas guns typically have chambers cut to provide clearance upon extraction, cut 'looser' than chambers for bolt guns.

For years I sized 308 brass using neck bushings to give desired neck tension only on the first 1/10". The larger dia. necks behind aid in case centering when being chambered. Accuracy was best with this practice, out to 1,000 yards on a regular basis.

Shooting a 6HAGAR spacegun back some several years I employed the same practice for sizing cases. Routinely cleaned 600-yd stages using Berger 105 VLD's & 105 Hybrids both. I loaded short-line rounds on an LNL, the slow-fire stuff with a single stage Harrell's turret.

 

[Daddycaddie67]

Do cases sized as in your two pictures chamber fully 'in battery' in your AR?

You may not need to get to the point where neck-sized cases are neck-sized all the way down to the neck/shoulder transition if they chamber fine already. Gas guns typically have chambers cut to provide clearance upon extraction, cut 'looser' than chambers for bolt guns.

For years I sized 308 brass using neck bushings to give desired neck tension only on the first 1/10". The larger dia. necks behind aid in case centering when being chambered. Accuracy was best with this practice, out to 1,000 yards on a regular basis.

Shooting a 6HAGAR spacegun back some several years I employed the same practice for sizing cases. Routinely cleaned 600-yd stages using Berger 105 VLD's & 105 Hybrids both. I loaded short-line rounds on an LNL, the slow-fire stuff with a single stage Harrell's turret.

The two in the pic will chamber but makes that ring you see. I figure if it chambers then it will size fully when fired. E

 

[spclark]

The two in the pic will chamber but makes that ring you see. I figure if it chambers then it will size fully when fired. E

Exactly. Done all the time when fire-forming cases to 'wildcat' dimensions. Also why many shooters prefer once-fired cases for longer distances as the case capacity is maximized.

Your cases seem rather dirty at the necks in those pics. You loading from a fairly well-known recipe for this cartridge? Streaked or black necks can indicate low charge weight which leads to soot collecting on case necks from blow-back before necks expand enough to seal off gas pressure. The sooting does reveal ring-forming chamber contact though, something I've seen little of in my shooting experience.

 

[Hotshot]

Just neck them all down in the single stage press. You could do hundreds maybe a thousand in an hour. Then use your progressive to load them from then until they get lost in the grass or snow.

 

[Daddycaddie67]

I havent fired a round through ths rifle yet, it is a new build. I bought 500 sized, ready to load cases from a member here. Yesterday I was able to reduce the sizing step down to two instead of three with no additional run out so now I have the redding B/FL die first followed by the redding N/Fl die. I also found the not all cases have the same shoulder bump so now the B/FL die is set to bump all cases the same. For shits and grins iI’m gonna move every thing over to the LNL this morning to see if it will work, not sure how some cam over will work on this progressive press, but we’ll find out. I did manage to get a hundred cases sized using the single stage. That will at least get the barrel broke in and load development started. I’ll report back on LNL sizing attempt later today. E

 

[Daddycaddie67]

The LNL sizing didn’t exactly go perfectly but I did manage to get a few cases to size down enough to chamber. The SS press will push the shoulder back farther but until I fire form I won’t know exactly how much will be required. So I’ll wait till then till then and If needed I shave .010” off the bottom of the die, at least to start with. E