Bushing dies 101

[Buzzsaw]

I've been reloading about 50 years. I'm looking at building a 6mmBR for 500 yard steel matches 4"-10". Everyone seems to be using the bushing dies. Are they really necessary or is the Redding FL sizer with a carbide sizer button fine?

are they easy to work with?
how many bushings do yo need to buy at $50 a pop
do people have problems with neck donuts?

help me out, will bushing dies REALLY make more accurate loads???????

 

[Falfan2017]

Hard to tell if you’ll like the bushing dies more. You have a lot more control over your neck tension with them. Also if you turn the necks you may need them. If you get the bushing die id look at the Wilson full length bushing sizer. Also the bushings aren’t 50 bucks. More like 15-20$ Only need one or two unless you want to turn or do a lot of experimenting with neck tension.

 

[LRPV]

I've been reloading about 50 years. I'm looking at building a 6mmBR for 500 yard steel matches 4"-10". Everyone seems to be using the bushing dies. Are they really necessary or is the Redding FL sizer with a carbide sizer button fine?

are they easy to work with?
how many bushings do yo need to buy at $50 a pop
do people have problems with neck donuts?

help me out, will bushing dies REALLY make more accurate loads???????

With a 6BR you have the option of going with Harrells Precision to get a semi custom fit die for your chamber. They are a bargain for what you get in my opinion. As far as bushings, they aren’t that expensive, you don’t have to get the coated bushings either. Wilson are just as good as Redding too. Another option that I used for 6BR was a FL Forster with a honed neck, it’s a nice option as well.

 

[Bill K]

Another nice thing about bushing dies, in a given cartridge, is that if you want to go up or down on sizing the neck to another caliber on that same case, all you need it proper bushings.
And you can also just neck size or run the die in a little further and bump the shoulder, when needed.

 

[B23]

And you can also just neck size or run the die in a little further and bump the shoulder, when needed.

As long as you are using a FL bushing die not just a bushing die. I'm sure Bill knows this but for those that may not some die companies like Redding make FL bushing dies and just bushing only dies where all it does is size the neck so be mindful of that when you order your die/s.

 

[Willie]

I have a good number of bushing dies, but I find myself going back to FL dies and using a variety of expander mandrels.

 

[Bill K]

As long as you are using a FL bushing die not just a bushing die. I'm sure Bill knows this but for those that may not some die companies like Redding make FL bushing dies and just bushing only dies where all it does is size the neck so be mindful of that when you order your die/s.

Yes, that is a good point to remember on a bushing die..

 

[243winxb]

help me out

We do not want to over work the brass necks when sizing. If a loaded rounds outside neck diameter is .270" , we dont want to size the neck smaller then about .267" More is over working the necks.

Std fl die- size a few cases without an expander. Measure neck outside diameter. Some standard fl dies will make the neck smaller by .008" . This is over working the brass. Brass life will be shorter. More runout is possible.

A bushing gives you control of sized diameter & how much of the neck gets sized.

A fl die with a honed out neck works, as does custom dies made from 3 fired brass from your rifle.

Lee collet neck die can be used to size the necks. A Redding body die is used to size the case body. NOTE: A Redding Type S fl busing die can be used as a body die. Just dont install a bushing.

Order a tignt neck chamber on your new build & neck turn brass.
A lot less of working the brass.. My factory chamber has lots of room in the neck area. But i can still get over 20 firings on the Win brass.

 

[RegionRat]

are they easy to work with?
how many bushings do yo need to buy at $50 a pop
do people have problems with neck donuts?

help me out, will bushing dies REALLY make more accurate loads???????

1) Yes. Just that you must make a decision about which one to install but we can help you learn about those choices as in the posts above.

2) Another one of those "it depends" answers I'm afraid. The posts above give you the reasons why. I don't think I spend $50 a pop, but the reality is I buy them all even if I don't use but maybe one or two for the vast majority of my own work. I like to cover my bases and don't hesitate to have the bushings that mean I am never stuck waiting for one.

If you are almost always using one brand for brass, you may only end up using the same bushing indefinitely. However, say we are in a shortage like the one now and you can't find your favorite... and get in a fresh batch and find them different than the one before, you are likely to want to at least try a bushing size up or down based on the different thickness. Keep in mind, many of us also use an expander mandrel in the ID, which can also help balance the end result or at the very least will be viewed as a gage. Like 243winxb said, neck turning and tight neck chambers do work as a system within competition bench guns. Just turning without the tight neck concepts can still benefit some field target and highpower sports as well, if the concept is focused on batch process controls for NT.

3) Donuts are an independent problem and can happen with or without bushing dies.

It is a real shame the Rifleman's Journal blog isn't around any more, but I think there were some excellent articles on the regular web site here that would be good nightstand reading for you. It will help you get comfortable while you learn to manipulate the bushing and mandrel selections.

https://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/6mmbr-loading-for-newbies/
https://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/reloading/expander-mandrels-and-neck-tension/
https://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/reloading/neck-tension-not-just-bushing-size/

 

[dgeesaman]

With a 6BR you have the option of going with Harrells Precision to get a semi custom fit die for your chamber. They are a bargain for what you get in my opinion. As far as bushings, they aren’t that expensive, you don’t have to get the coated bushings either. Wilson are just as good as Redding too. Another option that I used for 6BR was a FL Forster with a honed neck, it’s a nice option as well.

Yep, in many ways a fixed neck die is an upgrade to a bushing die. But you need to decide on that neck diameter will work for you. In my case I turn necks and my non bushing die is set to squeeze the neck down just enough that my expander mandrel opens it up a little bit.

All that said, I used a bushing die for a year before I realized I kept using the same bushing. Then I ordered my custom non-bushing die from Whidden.

 

[Bill Norris]

There have been some test in a different caliber (260 Rem - Panhandle Precision U-tube) with non-bushing F/L dies vs. bushing F/L dies that showed no change in accuracy but there again with a non-bushing die there is no swapping them out to test neck tension changes.

 

[paulT]

Been Reloading since 80s
Bought many types of dies including fl sizer, bushing dies, Inline sizer bushing dies used on Arbor press etc etc The Sizer and seater dies which gave Best Results with my Light Turned .308 Brass for Match Shooting were a Redding Comp Body die to size and bump shoulder then a Lee Collet Neck Size Die followed up with a Wilson inline Seater die used on a Arbour press loaded round run out typicaly less than one thousand of an inch and neck tension very uniform.

 

[skeeljc]

My experience is FL bushing dies do not produce low neck runout like one piece FL sizing dies do. Also pulling an expander back through the sized neck produces more neck runout than pushing an expander pin through the sized neck.

As far as overworking the brass (neck) that is not an issue if you anneal every time.

 

[K22]

There's a video on the net supported with test data that compares the various methods of controlling neck tension including bushing dies, standard FL dies using precision mandrels, and standard FL dies using a standard expander ball. I can't recall the author or the name of the video but if you do a net search on neck tension you'll probably find it. It's quite compelling.

The bottom line is that the data show the most consistent method test was a standard FL die using precision mandrels. The author recommends the Century 21 precision mandrel that are supplies in .0005 step changes. With the mandrel die and set of mandrels the cost is close to $200.

I'm not a long distance precision shooter but the one's I know swear that controlling neck tension is one the key elements necessary for long range precision shooting and I have no reason to doubt them.

I'm primarily a precision varmint / predator hunting and precision reloads are important to me. Since I only use standard FL sizing dies, I control neck tension somewhat by using a series of expander balls polished to provide 3 to 5 with step changes of .001". This works reasonably well for my purposes since my goal is to achieve uniform neck tension per set of cases for a given rifle rather than targeting a precise value. But I'm only shooting out to 300 yards and most of the time less than that.

 

[K22]

Found the video I referred to in my previous post. - "Setting Neck Tension for Precision Handloading" by Bolt Action Reloading on You Tube.

 

[wkdickinson]

I use bushing dies exclusively for my target ammo, along with an appropriately sized mandrel. The main reason is to work the neck as little as possible, even though I do anneal at each reloading. I also use them for much of my non-target brass for the same reason. But there, I don't use a mandrel to finish size the neck, I use the die's sizing button. Standard full-length dies will undersize the neck maybe .006-.008. I use a bushing to only squeezer it down maybe .003, then let the button finish size it, to about .003.

Works for me anyway.

 

[Ccrider]

Consistent neck diameter is important.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

This has been a very educational thread. Thanks to all of you!