Burris Signature inserts (which way?).

[Grey Kiwi]

Folks, I have set up my CZ457 with Burris Signature rings and inserts. Seems fine so far...but a query about them.
I notice that the inserts have a wee 'notch' out of one side.
Burris don't mention if there is a right or wrong way to place that notch.
Place the inserts with 'notch to notch', or with notches opposite each other?
Your thoughts?





FORUM BOSS:
So people don't waste their time with misinformed posts below, here are instructions from Burris. Please note, the true elevation change is a function of RING SPACING (front to rear) as well as the collective net value of the ring inserts. Normally, in front, on each right you will use a matched pair of inserts with minus value on the bottom/matching (same number) plus value on top. For example -20 on bottom front and +20 top front. Then in the rear use a PLUS value on the bottom with a matching minus value on the top.



Using Inserts to Adjust Point of Impact in Any Direction
Although it is convenient and most understandable to refer to the ring inserts as a “bottom” or “top” insert, the inserts may be rotated to any angle within the scope rings. This allows the shooter to correct the point-of-impact in any direction. The drawings below show how the inserts can be rotated to induce both elevation and windage changes at the same time.

 

[Dave M.]

Just match the top and bottom aka have them turned the same way.
I have have +10 in back & - 10 in front

I think you should clarify top and bottom on both the front and rear ring. Remember the +10/-10 go together as a pair on the same ring.
Dave

 

[Grey Kiwi]

Yes, I have them matched for the top/bottom sizing (+.010 and -.010 are matched in the rear ring. The +.010 is at the bottom, -.010 is in the top of the ring mount).
This gives me the rear of the scope lifted slightly (I'm only shooting 25yard benchrest and wanted a slight 'cant' downwards to the target).
Front ring inserts are the standard 0 set.

 

[Grey Kiwi]

No the - 10"s together on front gives 10 moa. The+10" s on front gives another 10moa.

Sorry, but no.
Are you saying that you have put a -.010 at both top and bottom of the front ring?
If so then that's wrong.
You always match a + with it's - partner. Not have 2 - inserts or 2 + inserts together.
Apologies if I have misunderstood what you meant.

 

[Grey Kiwi]

I didn't ask what you replied.
I asked about the notches.
There must be reason why Burris has put those notches in, but they don't say.

 

[Grey Kiwi]

In my case I wanted to lift the rear of the scope. I settled on the .010 inserts.
If the +.010 insert is put in the bottom of the ring mount then that lifts the scope upwards. You then need to allow for that lift by fitting the -.010 insert in the top.
You always fit a matched pair. A + with it's - partner. Not mixing sizes all over the place.

 

[Grey Kiwi]

Scroll down to Pos-Align (2nd page).
Explains it all...but doesn't say if the notches are meant to be matched.
I have asked Burris, but no reply yet.

https://www.beretta.com/assets/39/29/Burris_Signature_rings_guide.pdf

 

[itchyTF]

Just a guess, but the notches may be used for the molding/manufacturing process.

 

[Grey Kiwi]

Just a guess, but the notches may be used for the molding/manufacturing process.

Quite possible. I have also seen some inserts with no notch.
My inserts 'look' to be the same profile around the outer surface, so I'm reasonably sure there is no difference in them.
For now I've just put notch to notch, but easy to fix if I'm wrong.

 

[BoydAllen]

No the - 10"s together on muzzle end gives 10 moa. The+10" s on bolt end gives another 10moa.

That way you get 20moa capabilities.
Or put "0" on back and -20 on front.

If you want ability to shoot 100+ yrds

Wrong. The plus and minus inserts are paired in the same ring, one of each. What you get depends on which one is top, or bottom. With the +10 on the bottom in the rear ring, the back of the scope is raised, and with it on the top in front (and the -10 on the bottom the front of the scope is lowered. The original designations were plus and minus actual dimensions rather than MOA. If you don't believe me, call Burris. I was at the Burris Shot show event where what were then called Signature Zee rings were introduced, sitting across one of those round conference tables from Jim Carmichael. I have been using them ever since. This whole MOA designation thing has come more recently, and is a oversimplification because the effect depends on ring spacing. Depending on how you align the gap between the inserts in a ring, you can correct for windage and elevation. It takes a little math but with a little ratio work and a minor amount of trig. you should be GTG.

 

[SmokinJoe]

Have a lot of these; they are my go-to ring for quite some time. They can solve a lot of alignment problems if you learn how to use them, plus they are an easy way to get that added elevation that a lot of shooters want. I have always installed them notch to notch, but I don't think it really matters.

 

[wildcatter]

Wrong. The plus and minus inserts are paired in the same ring. one of each. What you get depends on which one is top, or bottom. With the +10 on the bottom in the rear ring, the back of the scope is raised, and with it on the top in front (and the -10 on the bottom the front of the scope is lowered. The original designations were plus and minus actual dimensions rather than MOA. If you don't believe me, call Burris. I was at the Burris Shot show event where what were then called Signature Zee rings were introduced, sitting across one of those round conference tables from Jim Carmichael. I have been using them ever since. This whole MOA designation thing has come more recently, and is a oversimplification because the effect depends on ring spacing. Depending on how you align the gap between the inserts in a ring, you can correct for windage and elevation. It takes a little math but with a little ratio work and a minor amount of trig. you should be GTG.

Good explanation,,, but it also does not guarantee any certain MOA difference! The difference in how much MOA you achieve is variable. the farther apart the rings are spaced, the less gain you get for what you are trying to achieve! But as has been said, it is always done with a plus and minus paired!

On other thing we can accomplish with these inserts when used properly, is left and right alignment correction, if one wants to keep his left and right windage adjustment center, these rings will accommodate this as well. I mention this as an old friend had an action with miss aligned screw holes for his bases, and was able to closely center the scope, with the adjustment turrets closer to their center using these rings and inserts for shimming the alignment in his windage.

Just for reference.

 

[BoydAllen]

Some good info from Burris, with an excellent illustration.

Burris XTR Signature Rings | Burris Optics

www.burrisoptics.com

 

[hogpatrol]

Yes, I have them matched for the top/bottom sizing (+.010 and -.010 are matched in the rear ring. The +.010 is at the bottom, -.010 is in the top of the ring mount).
This gives me the rear of the scope lifted slightly (I'm only shooting 25yard benchrest and wanted a slight 'cant' downwards to the target).
Front ring inserts are the standard 0 set.

IIRC, when the rings come from Burris, with regards to the notch, the inserts are not matched. That's the way I install them. Boyd Allen is correct, they are installed in one ring, plus and minus.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I don't think the notch location matters.

 

[Dave M.]

Sorry, but no.
Are you saying that you have put a -.010 at both top and bottom of the front ring?
If so then that's wrong.
You always match a + with it's - partner. Not have 2 - inserts or 2 + inserts together.
Apologies if I have misunderstood what you meant.

Agree

 

[Dave M.]

No the - 10"s together on muzzle end gives 10 moa. The+10" s on bolt end gives another 10moa.

That way you get 20moa capabilities.
Or put "0" on back and -20 on front.

If you want ability to shoot 100+ yrds

Wrong.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Agree

Right. It's like having a scope ring that's too big, if you use two negatives. One should be thick, one should be thin and together, they should net the same id as with two zero inserts, for example. I hope that makes it easily understood. Don't over think this. It's not that complicated and they are great rings.

 

[Dave M.]

I didn't ask what you replied.
I asked about the notches.
There must be reason why Burris has put those notches in, but they don't say.

Grey,

I have a set and they don’t have the notches but I’m fairly certain the notches were likely added as a post molding machining operation to remove the injection molding gate that I have shown circled in red below.
Dave

 

[Dave M.]

Right. It's like having a scope ring that's too big, if you use two negatives. One should be thick, one should be thin and together, they should net the same id as with two zero inserts, for example. I hope that makes it easily understood. Don't over think this. It's not that complicated and they are great rings.

BINGO. Mike gets a gold star.