bumping shoulders

[garyw]

i keep reading about bumping the shoulders on 6br brass.i have ordered 200 lapua cases and redding s-type full die set with bushing,will i have to bump the shoulders after firing or several firings or not at all?
will the gun dictate this?
if i do need to bump them what die should i get? as you can guess im getting a bit twisted up on this 6br theres so much informaton i cant answer one question with one answer.havnt had this much pre gun stress before!hope it works out.
i am sure you guys will steer me in the right direction.
garyw.

 

[mikecr]

Well you can keep buying brass and toss those that no longer chamber well,after 3-5 firings), or you can bump.
You WILL eventually run into this. Everyone does.

Bumping is cheaper, and easier than perpetually prepping and forming new brass all the time.

Pick up one of these body dies:
http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=REDIREBSD&item=RD75XBDIE1&type=store

It's just another added step to sizing. You make it routine after a bit.

 

[eggman]

Gary,
You can purchase a FL Harrell's die and they will send you a gage along with it that you can measure how much you "bump" back the shoulder to get the bolt to close easy on a newly sized case but not to oversize it and work your brass too much. one and a half thousands to two thousands is usually enough . And be sure to measure your fired case with the primer removed but the case not sized and this will give you your "benchmark" or your chamber length. Good luck,
Rodney

 

[rstreich]

+1 for the Harrell's. You'll need to send them a piece of brass that you've fired three times. This helps ensure that it's a close fit to your chamber. They'll select a die that will size the web and side of the shoulder slightly. Here's a brief write-up of it.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Or, you can get yourself a Forster "Precision Bushing Bump Die".
It will bump the shoulder as much or as little as you want and with an "extra" set of bushings, you can do 22 BR brass too.
They're all good. It's just a matter if what you get use to using.
No matter what, you've got to have "more goodies"!
Seems like I paid around $60.00 for the die set and another $30.00 for the extra 3 bushings to do the 22 Br.

 

[trappst]

If you ordered a Type S FL die set, you won't need a body die or anything to bump the shoulders back.

You can set the Type S FL die to bump the shoulders back just a tad everytime you size them. How much will depend on the rifle/chamber....a headspace gauge makes this easy. I use type S FL dies for my rifles that I hunt with. I like rounds to chamber smoothly but I don't like over working my brass. Typically, it only takes about .001-.002" of shoulder bump to keep things running smoothly.

If you got a Type S Neck die set, you'll need a body die or something similar.

 

[BoydAllen]

The nice thing about the Harrell die is that it is selected from several versions to fit the fired brass from your chamber. Friends had a problem with their off the shelf,not Harrell)bushing FL dies not being small enough in the back to size their cases. They had ignored my advice as to what to buy in the first place, so they got to buy twice. Tightness is not just at the shoulder, so a bump die makes no sense to me, unless you are shooting light loads. Add a Wilson seater and an arbor press and you will be all set.

http://harrellsprec.com/index.php?crn=207&rn=384&action=show_detail

 

[garyw]

one question - infinite answers.my head is spinning still,but not as fast!
looked at the harrell die looks very good 3firings is enough?
i will contact harrells to see if they will send to the uk.
dont worry more questions will be forthcoming!!!

ps.just watched the olympics we got stuffed in the trap shooting.
well done.
garyw

 

[Forum Boss]

Another vote for just getting a full-length die. I use a Redding std,non-bushing) full-length die with the neck honed to about .2665". This decaps the brass, sizes the whole case a little bit, and gives me about .0015 tension on Lapua 105 scenars, and of course I can bump the shoulder however much/little I want.

Forster has a similar die, and they'll hone the neck to the dimension you specify for about $12.00 plus shipping,which might be a lot in your case).

Bushing dies offer the very REAL advantage of being able to adjust your neck tension and try different settings. But once you know what works, I personally prefer non-bushing dies.

 

[BoydAllen]

Garyw,
Three firings, neck sized only, should be just fine. As to bump measurement, the die will come with a brass tool that you slip down over the case neck to measure bump,using calipers). I always measure bump relative to a tight case. It takes more than one firing reach the maximum head to shoulder dimension for a particular chamber. Measure your example case with the primer removed. Another thing, as brass work hardens the die setting that it takes to achieve the bump that you want will change. I always verify my bump on the first case of a particular set, and I always use and load cases in strict rotation, to keep work hardening as uniform as possible within that set.
Boyd

 

[mwood]

You already own the necessary die to do the trick.,to bump) I have a rifle that has a tight chamber so what I did is simply have .010 inches ground off the bottom of the Redding "body die". Redding makes a set of competition shell holders,RD11601) that are in .002 inch increments of extra thickness. If you were to use the .010 shell holder it would be a "NO Bump" measurement.
If you use the .006 then you would be applying .004 inches of pressure on the sholder resulting in a bump of something less than that,maybe .002) due to the "memory" of the brass.
If you can't get the shell holders right away, simply use shim stock to set up the press in the mean time. Put the press in the top position, and adjust the die to hit the shell holder with shim in between. If the shim is .006, its the same as using a .006 shell holder. This would impose .004 pressure and move the bras similar to my example above. I only needed .003 hit to solve my problem of a tight bolt,.007 shim with .010 removed from body die). Start with a small bump and work yourself up until the bolt lock goes away, or use measurements as described in earlier postings.If you find you have to impose a large measurement, then you have something wrong, and you better see a gunsmith to check out your gun/ chamber.

 

[BoydAllen]

Bump needs to be measured. Rifles' headspaces are far from identical. For that reason, no one can tell how much bump you will get by using a particular setup. Sinclair sells a caliper attachment, as does Hornady (formerly mfg. by Stoney Point). Harrel'ls dies come with a brass piece that is used to measure bump. Assuming that it is properly dimensioned, your body die can probably be used to size everything (including shoulder bump) except the neck.

 

[Laurie]

looked at the harrell die looks very good 3firings is enough?
i will contact harrells to see if they will send to the uk.

Gary,

Yes they will - just got a 6PPC die from them no trouble. It took around 4-5 weeks from sending the case and credit card number to the Royal Mail saying they wanted the duty, VAT plus their rip-off £8 international handling fee.

Laurie,
York

 

[mod70]

Just curious so what was the total price of the die to you in US funds after all of your various fees? If you care to answer!
John Roberts

 

[Laurie]

John,

I'm not sure I want to know - and certainly don't want my good lady to!

The die was $70 same as you pay. Carriage was around $30 (from memory) and the charges at this end came to £14.65 which is somewhere around $23, so over $120 in total.

I made a fatal mistake late in 2008 - I decided to try Factory Sporter Class benchrest in 2009 with a .204 Ruger cal Savage 12 LRPV and ended up winning the UKBRA FS Championship this year. I caught the BR bug! It's already cost a packet in a secondhand 6PPC RG Rifles HV rifle, .220 Russian brass ...... etc, etc. Oh dear, that reminds me - I have to get hold of some BR quality bullets too!

Regards,

Laurie

 

[tenring]

I have been using a Redding Instant Indicator to bump 6mmBR and 30 BR shoulders, and it is great. You can easily see a reduction of .001" in the shoulder as die is turned down.

 

[mod70]

WOW! Over $50 on top!

 

[AndyW]

I am a slow learner. At first I just neck sized and like many here have said after 3 firings or so you will have to squeeze the body and bump the shoulder in order to close the bolt without standing on it; It was a second step with a body die. I ordered a FL bushing die for my 6br and with a headspace gauge measurement on a 3x fired case I set the die to push the shoulder back .002

I now do this instead of neck sizing and will never go back. With every round the bolt closes the same..

 

[mwood]

It is possible to NOT do the Harrels approach, but I don't recommend it.
I took a Redding body die and had .010 ground off the bottom. Then using a Redding shell holder set I could for example use an .008 thicker shell holder yeilding a bit less than .002 bump (due to elasticity of system). You then bump a sholder then see what the bolt tension is. If it is too tight, then you go to the next size shell holder. I ended up with a .006 shell holder (you can also use shim stock). I yielded about a .002 bump which what was needed for my gun. (a Cooper 6BR). This had the advantage of not needing to measure headspace...etc. Or.........Simply let Harrels do it for you as suggested above. I bumped every time, as it got really nasty if the sholder moved too much. It was not fun to have a bolt lock up with a live round in the middle of a Score Match.

 

[Laurie]

mod 70

WOW! Over $50 on top!

Remember we have a tax called VAT in Europe (Value Added Tax). For the retail buyer it adds a fixed amount onto any goods or service purchased (except on food, printed material or children's clothes in the UK). Until yesterday, it was 15% (reduced a year ago to perk the flagging economy a bit); from today, it has reverted to 17.5%. Some people reckon it will be 20% or more later this year after the upcoming general (national) election to help pay for our past misdeeds that have made us bankrupt as a nation!

The really irritating part is our postal service charging a flat-rate £8 ($12.80) to process an international package. It's not a big amount if you can make a big order up, maybe with others, from one supplier like Sinclair, but it's a killer on a smallish single item like a die.

Laurie