Bullets and BC to Hit Hard (Maybe we need to rethink)

[urbanrifleman]

I am sure that there are lots of people who did the math, but I just wanted to point out something that maybe others have never considered.

Here is 22-250 shooting a 60 grain Hornady at 3650.



Here is comparison of the same bullet with the Hornady ELDM 75 at 3350.



By 150 yards the bullets are going the same speed.

By 400 yards the velocity advantage at the muzzle has flipped.



I think it is quite possible people are burning up barrels trying to get these little varmint bullets going really fast to get more 'splody, when in fact they could shoot a milder load with a slicker bullet and get more 'splody.

Here is more extreme example. Here is the same 60 grain going 3950. And the same MILD load of 3350 of the 75.



Here you can see that the small bullet is much better for velocity at short range. That could lead to some serious splody.

But then they are going the same speed at 350 yards... and that 75 grain bullet is going to hit like a hammer.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Here is another thought.

the 60 at 3950 verses the 75 at 3650.



They are equal at 150 yards (but the 75 is 15 grains heavier).

But look at 500 yards.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I really think the old formula of the slow twist little bullet rig (that can be pretty hard on barrels and use a lot of powder) is not as good at the fast twist with a long range style poly tipped bullet.

A 22 Creedmore should be able to get 3650 with a 75, as would a 22-250A. A 22xc will be close, and should be easier on the throat. Close enough to "in the noise" for data.2

And most people cannot get a 60 grain bullet to 3950. That is moving out...

Just my thoughts...

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Well, I think a lot of us do realise that. Waters, in his collection of articles, "Pet Loads" was advocating for the 22/250 to be made in a 10 twist, back in the '60s. Ackley designed his "improved" cartridges to use heavier bullets, not faster small ones. I have been using a fast twist 223 for F-Class, on occasion, for a while, shooting 75g and up - in a discipline where 55g just doesn't make it. Well, short ranges - let's not pretend that 75/77g are useful over 600 yds.

Incidentally, a fellow was shooting a very nice PRS rifle in 224 Valkyrie yesterday, to good effect. The mirage was shocking - hardly any wind and 28deg C. Scores were generally low, but he was holding his own with 80g Hornady factory ammo, to collect the hard to get brass.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Well, I think a lot of us do realise that. Waters, in his collection of articles, "Pet Loads" was advocating for the 22/250 to be made in a 10 twist, back in the '60s. Ackley designed his "improved" cartridges to use heavier bullets, not faster small ones. I have been using a fast twist 223 for F-Class, on occasion, for a while, shooting 75g and up - in a discipline where 55g just doesn't make it. Well, short ranges - let's not pretend that 75/77g are useful over 600 yds.

Incidentally, a fellow was shooting a very nice PRS rifle in 224 Valkyrie yesterday, to good effect. The mirage was shocking - hardly any wind and 28deg C. Scores were generally low, but he was holding his own with 80g Hornady factory ammo, to collect the hard to get brass.

Keep in mind I am talking about EXPLOSION on a varmint. Speed is explosion. People think that initial velocity equates to velocity downrange. I was just pointing out maintaining speed is very important. And doing the math can be quite eye opening.

 

[Nealm66]

I love my 7 twist 22 creed with the 90vld’s. Was hoping to get it to a buddy for long range coyote pelts but I guess they won’t buy them now after mid December. I took 2nd in a local informal 600 match in custom class. Tough part is not sure the bullet performance. Going to try some smaller solids for close range work that can handle the twist and hopefully won’t do too much damage. I think that’s the hard part is finding performance at long and short range. Will be helping a friend figure this out with a 6mm creedmoor as soon as he gets the barrel

 

[Nealm66]

On another note, do you make savage barrel nut prefits? My friend is 4 months out on the carbon 6 lol

 

[urbanrifleman]

On another note, do you make savage barrel nut prefits? My friend is 4 months out on the carbon 6 lol

Yes. I do.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I love my 7 twist 22 creed with the 90vld’s. Was hoping to get it to a buddy for long range coyote pelts but I guess they won’t buy them now after mid December. I took 2nd in a local informal 600 match in custom class. Tough part is not sure the bullet performance. Going to try some smaller solids for close range work that can handle the twist and hopefully won’t do too much damage. I think that’s the hard part is finding performance at long and short range. Will be helping a friend figure this out with a 6mm creedmoor as soon as he gets the barrel

Try the Hornady 75 EDLM or the 80 ELDM, both should be very explosive. As are the Sierra 69 and 77 TMK, but those are hard to find.

 

[Nealm66]

I’ve heard that about the eldm’s. I’ve had problems with eldm’s in the past though flying apart when I’ve pushed them a little bit. What’s the best way to order a barrel? I think I saw you have a website or should I call or just message on here

 

[dfrosch]

How would the 53 grain V-Max compare? Should be able to launch it faster and it has a higher BC than the 60 grain.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I’ve heard that about the eldm’s. I’ve had problems with eldm’s in the past though flying apart when I’ve pushed them a little bit. What’s the best way to order a barrel? I think I saw you have a website or should I call or just message on here

Www.theurbanriflemanstore.com

You can pm me your number if you are ready to order.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I’ve heard that about the eldm’s. I’ve had problems with eldm’s in the past though flying apart when I’ve pushed them a little bit. What’s the best way to order a barrel? I think I saw you have a website or should I call or just message on here

Do you have a 7 twist?

 

[Nealm66]

I haven’t tried eldm’s in my 22 creed. It was in an 8 twist 6.5 pushing the 140’s about 3200 is where they started coming apart and I’d suspect that’s about where they would want to be fps out of the 22 creed. Pm on the way

 

[urbanrifleman]

I haven’t tried eldm’s in my 22 creed. It was in an 8 twist 6.5 pushing the 140’s about 3200 is where they started coming apart and I’d suspect that’s about where they would want to be fps out of the 22 creed. Pm on the way

I shot the 75s up to 3550. No issues.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Keep in mind I am talking about EXPLOSION on a varmint. Speed is explosion. People think that initial velocity equates to velocity downrange. I was just pointing out maintaining speed is very important. And doing the math can be quite eye opening.

Yes, of course - but same same. Speed, together with high BC bullets equals flatter trajectory, more accuracy at distance and more downrange energy.. My 17 Hornet is devastating at close range (under 300yds) but next to useless any further out, due to the low BC of the 20g pills. Starts out at 3600fps and falls right off.

A good mate shot bunnies for ages with a 243 and 80g. Talk about the "red mist"! Rabbit parts over 25 yds away from 200yd shots.

 

[rebel]

This the only forum I know where splody is universal language and understood.

 

[urbanrifleman]

This the only forum I know where splody is universal language and understood.

I credit myself with the vernacular. I stole it from my friend Kip.

 

[rebel]

My buddy Josh would invent words like that. On the last day of one grouse hunting camp we had two game wardens drop by one morning. One we knew rather well and he knew us, the other kept peering around camp, looking for what I would assume signs of any violation. Once they left called the newer game warden "arresty"

 

[urbanrifleman]

My buddy Josh would invent words like that. On the last day of one grouse hunting camp we had two game wardens drop by one morning. One we knew rather well and he knew us, the other kept peering around camp, looking for what I would assume signs of any violation. Once they left called the newer game warden "arresty"

Sgt. Arresty McArresterston