Bullet seating depth tool?

[CanusLatransSnpr]

Hey all! This topic has probably been hashed over many times on here but, I'm frustrated with my current method and looking for an easier softer way to find where to seat a bullet to touch the lands. All I have ever used is the Hornady OAL gauge and modified cases but, I'm sick and tired of getting different measurements every time I try to find the lands with a given bullet. I'll try several times in a row and very seldom will I get the same measurement twice and never twice in a row. Am I doing something wrong? I would like to know a method or a better tool for determining this measurement! I have my trusty Sinclair Catalog open and I'm looking at the Sinclair tool. Is it any better or easier to use than the Hornady tool? Thanks in advance for the help guys!

Mike

 

[rocketron]

lawrence posted before i hit the post button sorry if it's double info.

i have the one from sinclair and i like it. my shooting buddy uses the hornady one and he likes it.

i use mine to get a ruff number, then i seat a bullet about .005 longer than my ruff number in a sized case with proper headspace and no primer or powder. chamber the case and look for land marks, seat bullet .001 deeper polish with steel wool and repeat till i don't get any marks.

i feel this is the only true way to get a good solid number.

Ron

 

[necchi]

I use the Hornady tool and have little trouble. ( I did, until I learned what I was doing )

I think the big deal is being sure you firmly "Hold" the modified case in place and use the same amount of pressure too press the bullet against the lands with your other hand.
The second part is key, you need the same amount of pressing or tapping or holding,,or whatever you do to get the bullet against the lands the same each time.

The measurement only applies to you, so your technique applies only to you also.

I had problems when I wasn't pushing the bullet in hard enough. I'm not leaving rifling marks on the bullet by any means, but I do push that thing in there. After all burning powder pushes it in there alot harder.

Whatever the measurement is, and using that measurement to move .010, .020 or,,,etc from the original measurement only applies to me and that bullet in my gun, it's relative only to the task at hand. The seating variable.

 

[tenring]

I don't think any tool will set the bullet depth exactly on the ogive. All you can do is get close, then by seating a bullet cleaned with 0000 steel wool, try it until you see small square marks from the land contact. Then go down a few thou and try again until the contact mark disappears. I call this "kissing" and write it down. From that, I can jam or jump bullets easily.

You can use a cleaning rod to get close. Insert it against a closed bolt, put small strip of tape on the muzzle end. Remove bolt, drop a bare bullet into the chamber, use small dowel against the base to hold it, then lower cleaning rod until it touches bullet tip. Tape a strip again. Measure the difference with your caliper, and start there.

Once I know where the bullet kisses, I put the Davidson base and appropriate nose piece on the caliper, measure and record that length. From that point on, its easy to move a seated bullet wherever you want it.

 

[artbosco]

All I have ever used is the Hornady OAL gauge and modified cases but, I'm sick and tired of getting different measurements every time I try to find the lands with a given bullet. I'll try several times in a row and very seldom will I get the same measurement twice and never twice in a row. Am I doing something wrong?

You're not doing anything wrong. The Hornady OAL gauge and modified case are good tools.

It's nearly impossible to apply pressure with your hands and a tool so that you're "right on" to within .001" [1/1000"] inch, each and every time you seat a bullet. Don't forget copper or lead are soft materials and can easily absorb infinitesimal amounts of pressure. I simply look for a pattern that's developed in the number measurements and/or take an average of ten readings. This isn't rocket science. NO frustration allowed.

Question: Are you using the piece of wooden dowel to run through the barrel to help feel when the bullet touches the lands as suggested in the instructions? It's a big help. Most people overlook this suggestion because they don't read the manufacturers instructions.

You use two hands, one on the gauge, and one sliding the dowel down the barrel so that it touches the tip of the bullet. By pushing back and forth with the gauge rod and the dowel you can really feel when the bullet just touches the rifling. Give it a try.

Note: Make sure the modified case is screwed in tightly to the gauge or you can get different readings because the case could be moving in or out during use.

With my 6PPC and 30BR I don't use the Hornady gauge since I seat my bullets well into the lands. I simply look for a square mark on the bullet when using my Micrometer topped Wilson Seater Die and a dummy round. Once the setting is found I simply leave it there until I've put about 300 rounds through the barrel, then adjust for throat erosion.

 

[OldDoug]

For fairly new shooters, remember the dreaded carbon ring in the front of the neck of the chamber. If not removed, the Hornady OAL case gauge will be very inacurate.

Remember that the average bullet ogive can vary within a box of 100 for many brands of fine bullets. Find this very much so in my Hornady and Nosler 22 and 243 projos.

I average 5-10 readings and throw out the flyers. Must have clean chamber, clean rifle and no trash on the case.

O D

 

[CanusLatransSnpr]

Wow! I have recieved a lot of good info here guys, thanks! When using the Hornady OAL gauge I try to apply the same pressure each time but, I still get different readings. Some times as much as .020" and that really frustrates me. I hold the tool with one hand, making sure the modified case can't go any farther toward the muzzle and then push the bullet with the rod until it stops. I try to make sure the bullet is there with out too much pressure. I haven't tried using a dowel rod to feel when the bullet touches the lands.
Lawrence and rocketron's method seems to make sense. Lawrence, when you talk about the Sinclaire tool are you referring to the Sinclair comparator body and bullet comparator? If so, I already have those tools for measuring seating depth from the ogive of the bullet vs. the tip. If your talking about their Bullet Seating Depth Tool, I don't have one of those but plan to acquire one. I like the idea of loading a bullet long and keep trying to chamber and seat deeper until you find that sweet spot where there isn't resistance but still rifling marks on the bullet. Thanks for the tip guys!

Mike

 

[Shynloco]

I don't think any tool will set the bullet depth exactly on the ogive. All you can do is get close, then by seating a bullet cleaned with 0000 steel wool, try it until you see small square marks from the land contact. Then go down a few thou and try again until the contact mark disappears. I call this "kissing" and write it down. From that, I can jam or jump bullets easily.

You can use a cleaning rod to get close. Insert it against a closed bolt, put small strip of tape on the muzzle end. Remove bolt, drop a bare bullet into the chamber, use small dowel against the base to hold it, then lower cleaning rod until it touches bullet tip. Tape a strip again. Measure the difference with your caliper, and start there.

Once I know where the bullet kisses, I put the Davidson base and appropriate nose piece on the caliper, measure and record that length. From that point on, its easy to move a seated bullet wherever you want it.

This is the preferred method for accurate bullet seating measurement, that according to some of the top Benchrest shooters who write about the subject. One of the main issues is that the case used must have been fired in the rifle for the measurement to be accurate. Works great for me!

 

[CanusLatransSnpr]

A gunsmith friend of mine takes a piece of fired brass, from whatever chamber he has, and drills and threads it for the Hornady tool to find the seating depth on his rifles.

Lawrence, I can see where the Sinclair nut would be easier to use. No need for loosening lock srews to change comparator inserts or anything like that. Hind sight being 20/20 I should have purchased on of those but, I have the bump gauge comparators also so I guess it isn't a total loss. I'm going to have to try your method soon. In all reality, it probably isn't any more time consuming than what I have been doing because it seems to take quite a while before I'm "comfortable" with the measurements that I'm getting. Comfortable is ok but, I would rather have confidence.

Mike

 

[expiper]

Tooo Complex.....I just seat a bullet till the lil' marks are square to slightly longer than wide and call that jamed....I use Wilsonl seaters and set the stem so that it will seat the shortest bullet I use in each particular cal...6mmBR/30-06 etc....then when I need to go longer for the bigget bullets I just add shims to get the right depth for that particular bullet and keep records.!!!!!! Confucius Says...."dimmest ink is brighter than the brightest memory!!"........if you add .001 or 2 or 5 or 50 thou.....that is what the bullet moves.....no lil' gadgets to fiddle with or adjust or break or loose the parts ,,,grrrrr,,,,just make em fit the rifle chamber ....nothing else matters.....Roger
PS,,,with the bullets seaated just rite...you will feel a VERY ltittle resistance when closing the bolt....tooo much and the gun will rock in the sand bags and slow u down and upset the rifle and your train of thought....you can measure the crush...seee the mark ...and feel the bolt close when things are rite....

 

[chevytruck_83]

Im sure its not as accurate as the tools you are using but for what its worth. I read in a nosler reloading book that you can take a brass fired in your gun(unsized)flatten a small spot on the brass to hold a bullet semi snug. then color the bullet with black marker and insert it into the case. Next chamber the round and the lands will push the bullet into the case scrapping off some of the marker telling you pretty well how far to seat your bullet. hope its of some help.

 

[artbosco]

PS...with the bullets seated just rite...you will feel a VERY little resistance when closing the bolt...

True, if the firing pin and spring are first removed from the bolt, and the shoulder is pushed back .001" to .0015". Otherwise, the firing pin spring's multiple pounds of force will disguise the true resistance when chambering the round.

 

[CanusLatransSnpr]

Once again guys, thanks for all the help! I guess I need to learn how to strip the bolt on my Savages and go from there with the great directions I have been given. However, could I get away with just taking the ejector off the bolt or do I need to take the firing pin out too? Thanks again!

Mike

 

[rocketron]

Once again guys, thanks for all the help! I guess I need to learn how to strip the bolt on my Savages and go from there with the great directions I have been given. However, could I get away with just taking the ejector off the bolt or do I need to take the firing pin out too? Thanks again!

Mike

this depends on how far you want to take it. you can make it complex or simple it's up to you. i like simple as long as i can get the results i'm looking for. if not i start making it more complex.

Ron

 

[CanusLatransSnpr]

I'm smelling what you're stepping in Ron. I'm like you, I prefer simple as long as I get the results I'm looking for. If not, then make it more complex. Thanks for all the help!

Mike

 

[MrMajestic]

I have had success obtaining a starting point by using the locking sleeves off of my Sinclair unit and a Dewey .22 cal. rod. I set the first ring from the muzzle to the bolt face and them jam a bullet (w/ Sinclair rod) and set the second ring to the bullet tip. Measure the difference and subtract .250 for the flange. I always verify with the bullet rifling marks on a round.

 

[artbosco]

I guess I need to learn how to strip the bolt on my Savages and go from there with the great directions I have been given. However, could I get away with just taking the ejector off the bolt or do I need to take the firing pin out too?

Here's how to disassemble the Savage bolt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIwyywJZf-4

Don't touch the ejector. You only need to remove the firing pin and the spring which is normally removed as a unit.

 

[expiper]

One more lil' tip from an ole' lazy guy....If you try a sized ctg in your rifle with NO primer...all you got do is let the pin go foreward and there is no spring tension to fool U.....no dissasembly,no time or trubl....keep it simple.....just a simpleton....Roger

 

[Shynloco]

PS...with the bullets seated just rite...you will feel a VERY little resistance when closing the bolt...

True, if the firing pin and spring are first removed from the bolt, and the shoulder is pushed back .001" to .0015". Otherwise, the firing pin spring's multiple pounds of force will disguise the true resistance when chambering the round.

BIG + 1!

 

[CanusLatransSnpr]

Thanks Roger! I never even thought about doing that. Sometimes I amaze myself by how dense I am ! So I'm thinking just pull the trigger back as I'm working the bolt closed right?

Outdoorsman, thanks for the link for the instructions on how to remove the firing pin and spring from a Savage bolt. That is going to come in handy someday.

Mike