Bullet Pointing

[DennisH]

I have been reading about bullet pointing for the last several hours.

Also have read about meplat trimming.

What's your thoughts. Do you Point bullets or do you trim and point bullets? There is lots of info and contradictions on the web.

Most of the articles state they point bullets with the Whidden dies and that's all.

I am shooting a 284 and 6.5x47 @ 1k yards. I also have a BRX I may shoot as well.

I appreciate your response in advance. I had a few hours to read and just looking to maybe shrink my groups a little at long range.

Dennis

 

[johnmyers]

I would suggest you check with John Hoover at www.accuracyone.com
He can tell you anything you need to know and has all of the quality equipment you need to sort, tip and point.

 

[DennisH]

Thanks John,

Dennis

 

[Terry]

Dennis

I point bullets with the Whidden dies. I have pointed 6mm. 6.5mm, and 7mm.
I like this system a lot. It is easy to use and does a great job. By reducing the hole about 50% it cleans up
any uneven points and makes all of the bullets more consistent. I just point.

Terry

 

[JohnW...ski]

I use Hoover dies for some of my .22 and 6 mm bullets, it does help produce smaller groups. I sort the bullets by length and point, I don't bother trimming.

John

 

[Laurie]

Re the trimming part, I'd suggest that it depends on how well the originals were finished. Bergers are usually very consistent out of the box, so (rightly or wrongly) I've always regarded pointing alone as fine. Undoubtedly, the way to get 100% finished consistency though would be to do both jobs, but you'd obviously restrict the trim part to the absolute minimum otherwise there is a risk of reducing rather than enhancing the BC.

If they're ragged and inconsistent (eg, in overall length), which used to be the case with many lots of Sierra MatchKings, I'd want to trim them beforehand. What I always do before the pointing bit is measuring bearing surface lengths and batching. Again, Bergers are usually very, very good in this respect. If there are serious variations though, I suspect non-batched examples not only affect groups, but will likely see different amounts of pointing applied in that process.

 

[coreydelong]

I would suggest you check with John Hoover at www.accuracyone.com
He can tell you anything you need to know and has all of the quality equipment you need to sort, tip and point.

I have John do my 142g SMK's. His fee is marginal in lots of 1000 bullets. Saves me a lot of time and I can just concentrate on loading and shooting.

The gear is worth it over the long haul if you have the time to do it. From what I have read- it does not seem worth MY time to do it vs. paying John.

 

[johara1]

Trim and point, and sort by bearing surface. works at 1K......jim

 

[DennisH]

sort by bearing surface

johara1: Could you possibly detail your above process and let me know what equipment you use?

Thanks, Dennis

 

[1shot]

Apparently Jim and I think alike, and this has happened more than once, even though we have never met. I have a couple of preferred bullet makers that I know have bearing surfaces that will run +- .001 lot after lot. When I get a new batch in, I grab a handful and look at them through a dental magnifier. The magnifier is nothing more than a big magnifying glass with a round fluorescent tube light bulb that goes all around the lens. I look at the bullet tips and if they are jagged, I’m going to set up my trimmer to cut them all to the shortest length. If they look real square out of the box and they don’t vary more than a couple of thousands, I just point them and proceed to load. I find that bearing surface is very important and that pointing or “tipping” helps reduce vertical dispersion. All of this is information is relative for 1K shooters as I have never found any difference between pointed vs non-pointed bullets at 600 yds. Or less. Maybe someone else will chime in with information to verify that pointing is useful at 600 yds.
I hope this helps,
Lloyd

 

[johara1]

I trim to the shortest length, and point on Hoovers tools. I am careful to mic the bullet dia. not to exceed .0001over the original dia. when setting up the pointer. Then i sort by bearing surface+-.0005...... jim

 

[DennisH]

All of this is information is relative for 1K shooters as I have never found any difference between pointed vs non-pointed bullets at 600 yds.

I know two well know shooters that totally believe trimming the meplat will make a difference.

I know weighing the bullets will make a difference as well.

What's your thoughts on the above two scenarios.

Dennis

 

[johara1]

Dennis, If it makes a difference at 1K it will make a difference at ALL ranges. People are lazy and talk themselves out of doing it,saying they don't see any difference at shorter ranges. I tested at 100 yds. and the ES.and SD. are lower with trimming and pointing and sorting. The Dasher is very easy to see the difference,some others maybe not as easy to see. ES.on the Dasher was 3 and SD.0,and will group in the zeros with a 105H and RL-15......jim

 

[DennisH]

johara1: It makes a difference with my groups and readings.

Interesting, as I am testing a BRX.

A few others state exactly what you say, FYI

Maybe 30 caliper bullets are not as delicate, or it's the 6mm's making the difference.

 

[Laurie]

I trim to the shortest length, and point on Hoovers tools. I am careful to mic the bullet dia. not to exceed .0001over the original dia. when setting up the pointer. Then i sort by bearing surface+-.0005...... jim

Another tip I was given and have found very useful is to measure the overall bullet length as you adjust the pointing die, that is set it initially so the bullet tip is only just touching the pointing insert, measure bullet OAL, adjust the die down a little (I increase the setting by 15 or 20 thou steps with the micrometer top on the Whidden version), point and remeasure the bullet length - which should increase. repeat until the final addition to pointing effort produces no extra OAL and if necessary back off a little. 0.224" 90gn VLDs grow by around 0.003" during the process. This does require bullets to be very consistent and/or batched beforehand.

 

[JBO]

They both work, I have owned and used both the Whidden and the Hoover, I now only own the Hoover. It seems to point better an the tools are very well made. Hoover has more variety in different bullet dies that make the matching the pointing more precise, just MHO

 

[nosualc]

Another tip I was given and have found very useful is to measure the overall bullet length as you adjust the pointing die, that is set it initially so the bullet tip is only just touching the pointing insert, measure bullet OAL, adjust the die down a little (I increase the setting by 15 or 20 thou steps with the micrometer top on the Whidden version), point and remeasure the bullet length - which should increase. repeat until the final addition to pointing effort produces no extra OAL and if necessary back off a little. 0.224" 90gn VLDs grow by around 0.003" during the process. This does require bullets to be very consistent and/or batched beforehand.

This makes good sense. Thanks for that!

-nosualc

 

[johara1]

I think setting up the pointing die and checking the diameter is a little more important. If the diameter grows the bullet is junk( core separation)..... jim

 

[nosualc]

I think setting up the pointing die and checking the diameter is a little more important. If the diameter grows the bullet is junk( core separation)..... jim

Where would you check the diameter?

-nosualc

 

[johara1]

I check at the front of the bearing surface and at the pressure ring,check two ways at both ends to make sure it's not out around..... jim