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Bullet Making - Newer Stuff

Bullet Making

The Idea
Some people in benchrest feel a need to have control over part of the Sport. The part I wanted some control over was bullet making. After several intense years of benchrest I added up my bullet boxes. In 5 years I had gone through 50,000+ bullets, 22's and 6's. A thought crossed my mind if I invested the same money I would have spent on the next 50,000 bullets I could buy most of my own bullet making gear.
The Equipment
I started with what I could afford. I needed a source for good equipment. Some say don't buy used I say why not. I know several guys that bought all new and sold it all. Now it is used equipment. The guy that bought the stuff has some good stuff at a good savings.
I have bought all my dies and presses from the same guy. No name needed but he is a HOF shooter that has made and shot his own bullets exclusively for over 20 years. He told me when you start making bullets stop buying others. Live with what you make. He was right.
I started with 1 Rockchucker Press and a set of Simonson 6mm dies in 1997. My source picked me out a core seating punch telling me it was a good size. He also told later to get a few others a 1/2 thou over and under. So far I have lived with the first punch.
Since I live 700 miles from my source a lot of time was spent on the phone getting pointers. It helps to have a mentor when learning bullet making. I spent alot of time going through my magazines looking for bullet making articles. I found several good ones in Rifle and PS mags. I will gather them together again and let you know where. A quick one to find is in the Benchrest Shooting Primer by Don Rorschach. Don covers everything here. My 2nd set of dies are Rorschach 22's.
Ideally you would like to have 3 presses one for each die. But I couldn't afford that set-up in the beginning. So for the first 6 years I used one Rockchucker press changing dies and adjusting my ejector for each die. I bought the Rorschach dies in 2001. Now I had 6 dies and 1 press. Lots of bruised knuckles. About this time I had a chance to purchase a set of Walter Caraway bullet boards at a good price. This brought some civility to my bullet making. Now I could go in my library room and fill trays with jackets and drop cores in them without much effort. Speeds up the bullet making operation.
Finally in 2003 my source found me 2 more presses. I skipped the Cactus Shoot for a year to make the buy. My friend Gene DeLoney paid the money and hauled them back for me. I was set 3 presses and 6 dies. Now I have 3 RCBS presses - 2 Rockchuckers and a RCBS A2. Scrub your presses down first before using them, start clean stay clean. Bullet making presses must be modified for bullet making. The rams must be modified to hold the punch. An ejector assembly must be made to eject the core, jacket in core seating, and the bullet. Also the handle as it contacts the press must be relieved to allow the handle to cam over. Walt Berger told me I needed more cam over in my presses at SG 2 Benchrest School last April.
You need a working area for bullet making. Ideally mount all your presses on a steel table. This provides a rigid base and a good clean-up surface. I don't have such. What I do have is a wood box open on 1 end made out of 3/4" plywood with a 1 1/2 front. I use 3/8" aluminum plates under 3/4" wood on my side presses to provide rigidity and mount my point up press directly to my box where I have the 1 1/2" wood. Works great.
Most of the torque comes when I point up the bullets. I bolt my 1st RCBS press on the open end of the box. I mount my core making RCBS press on the right side and my core seating RCBS A2 press on my left side. I have 2 core cutters. I use my CH core cutter for 6 cores and my other for 22's. Actually my custom cutter does both. I have 2 shelves in my box. Here I store jackets, containers, my bullet boards, and that's it.
Tools
One thing I want to stress here. You must have dedicated tools in bullet making. I have a wire cutter that never leaves my box. I use 3/4" open end wrench for my punch holders. I keep a 1/2" wrench for my ejector nuts. I keep a 3/8" wrench for my A2 ejector nuts. A screw driver for my A2 punch holder. You need the correct size Allen wrench for your lock rings. All these are part of your tool kit and should never leave the area.
The Components
All that a bullet is made up of is a lead core and a bullet jacket. Add about 6-8 hrs for every 1000 you can shoot for a month. I have seen lately BR 6 mm bullets are up to $230/thou. Seems like many will keep saying saying bullets are still the best bargain in the benchrest world. Could be but only because of what it would cost to tool up to make bullets. About $5000 new.
To start with you need to buy jackets. You need to buy when they are available. Being on a order list is bad planning unless you have a backstock and are ordering to keep thus. I started out buying a bucket or 2 usually not the same lot. About 5 years ago I got lucky Stu Harvey and I split an order of 50,000. Neither one us needed that many, both of us having a substantial back stock, but the price was right, the jackets were 1's, and timing was perfect. I haven't used any of that order and I don't think Stu has either. Two years later you couldn't buy jackets. Jackets are all bought from J4 initially and later to those they distribute to. A 22 bucket of .705 jackets contains 2200. A 6 bucket of .825 jackets contains 1800.
Lead wire or wire as it's known is not hard to get but why wait and pay more for each 25 lb roll. I bought 8 rolls from Lester years back and still have 9.
Core Cutting
This step is not done by some. Some bullet makers buy formed cores. Others, probably most make their own cores. I make my own cores. To start with a roll, lets say 10 pieces of wire about 30 bullets in each. I pull the length of my top which I cut with my wire cutter, lead is soft. Next roll each piece on a flat table to get them somewhat straight. The next step is my own don't know if anybody uses it, don't care. I take a paper towel spray it with silicone and pull each wire through it before cutting. For 10 wires several towels are needed. I do this because it cleans the wire and leaves a minimal amount of silicone on the cut cores, good for the core forming operation. All my cut cores are dropped into a stack of empty jacket containers. In the top container I place a paper towel in the bottom to keep the cores from bouncing out after I cut them. Cut all the cores in one sitting. I can cut 10 pieces of wire in 20 min. After I cut the cores I weigh them. Cut cores weigh .68lb/100 to make 66 grn 6 bullets. I do this to get an idea how many bullets I can make. I gather the cut cores up on clean paper towels doubled and proceed to the core forming operation.
Core Forming
Now I have my die set to squirt cores. My Simonson has 2 squirt holes. My Rorschach has 3. You need to set your die to get a good squirt. Walt says 3 grains. Now what I do is squirt cores placing them in a new styro cup. Probably take 3 or 4 cups for 10 wires. This goes quick but be careful not to get your finger between the punch and the die it can hurt. If you want weigh the formed cores, .62 lb/100 for my 6mm bullets.
This goes for all your presses set your ejectors with the punch down so that when the punch goes in the die the ejector will push it out each time. Very important nothing needs to get stuck in the die.
Cleaning & De-greasing Cores
This is a necessary step. Different ways same result, clean. First I will go over my way and then a few others.
What I do is I dump all my cores in a cone shaped sieve. Anything that drains will work. Now I dump a good amount of rubbing alcohol on the cores shaking and adding more alcohol. I do this to get all the small pieces of lead and whatever is on the cores. Now I take a medium sauce pan fill it 1/2 full of hot water add a good amount of white vinegar and add the cores. The vinegar cleans the cores and helps in the oxidation. Swirl the cores around several times. Let sit for 20 minutes. Then I drain the cores back into my sieve and flush with water for 5-10 minutes, I use the sink flush hose. This needs to be done to keep the vinegar from continuing the oxidation process. You want the oxidation to make the cores adhere to the jacket but not in excess. After flushing I drop the cores on a towel on my pool deck and let them dry for 20 minutes. If foul weather they will dry inside just slower.
Other ways guys clean cores are chemicals, Coleman fuel, tsp in boiling water, unknown stuff. Clean is clean whatever way you get there.
Core Seating
After I have loaded my bullet trays with jackets stuffed with cores I proceed to my A2 press. Here is what most consider the determining factor in making good bullets. After you select a punch that matches with the lot of jackets you have begin by washing your hands. I keep a box of sanitized towels and clean my hands often while making bullets. You need some coordination in bullet making. Whatever hits the ground stays on the ground no 5 second rule in bullet making. To seat cores you must be able to pick the jacket up turn it upside down holding the core in with your finger. Takes a rhythm. Let the press do the work. No need to slam the handle home your working on a compound leverage press.
You need to set your die so that you get maximum expansion on you jacket while core seating. Use a micrometer to check. You should see a ring of bleed-by lead inside a seated core jacket.
Lube
Next you need to the lube the jackets before the point-up. Again several ways to do this and several lubes. I make a lube that is 3 parts anhydrous lanolin, 1 part Vaseline. Walt uses the same without the Vaseline. Some have a special formula. Point is whatever lube you use keep it to a minimum. Too much or too little lube affects the final dimension of your bullet. Some use a tumbler I use a 4 qt mason jar and shake. Same result.
Point-Up
Time to complete the bullet. You can load up your bullet boards again if you want. Here again develop a smooth stroke in pointing bullets. One stroke no stopping. This goes fast. For the first couple bullets rub a small amount of lube on the bullet to get the die prepped. I know a great bullet maker that would make 75 bullets before he started on his BR bullets. He did this to warm up the dies. The first 75 were sold as Varmint bullets. I don't do this. I leave the lube on my finished bullets.
Set your die up to close the point. Too much closing and the jacket material starts moving up the ejector hole. A small hole is fine not going to affect the way the bullet shoots.
Packaging & Record Keeping
You can use the empty bullet boxes you've collected. Sometimes I do. But what I have done lately is go to my 99 cent store and buy packs of small plastic containers, they hold 300 bullets.
I keep records on such things as lot of jackets, date bullets made, core weight, finished bullet weight, bullet measurements on shank and at pressure ring, performance and load development. Doesn't hurt to keep records.

This is in no way the drop dead bullet making treatise. But it works. Guys that do bullet making for a business probably have different ways. Looking forward to hearing from R.G. Robinett here. I too want to learn more about bullet making. Check 6mmBR.com in the Articles Archive for the San Gabriel BR School pics of Walt Berger and myself teaching bullet making. You will see my bullet making box I described and my RCBS presses.
Let it be Said. Let it be Done.
Stephen Perry
 
Guys
Don't feel out place on this bullet making Thread. There has to be some out there that make bullets or might like to. Like to hear from some of you.
Stephen Perry
 
Making bullets with a friend in Blackmon steel dies. Using lead wire to make cores, squirt them to weight, wash them, seat them in the jacket, and then point them. These are 30 cal, 8 ojive, 118, 124 and 133 for HBR in our 30-47's. Shoot very well.

Mike
 
Thank you Mr Perry,
Don`t know you well enough to call you Stephen.
I have only been into the hand swaged projectiles for 10 months now, used to just use commercial ones but since getting serious about accuracy have been buying quality. Have just purchased another 1,000 30cal 115gr $350 and they are getting more expensive so may even start looking at making my own and maybe for some of the other local shooters. Will have to keep an eye out for secondhand rockchucker presses.
Thank you again for a very informative article.
 
Bro, it was like reading about a guy that makes his own fuel from fast food restruants discarded fryer oil. Sounds interesting, but I doubt I would have the time and patience to make my own bullets. Of course you have yet something else thats your fault. My bullet blew apart...:,

Good read though, I think for now I just watch for sales and buy a shet load at a time.

RHINOUT!
 
Rhino
I have never sold any bullets and only offered to 1 or 2 people a few you weren't one of them. As far as making bullets maybe only 2% make them obviously not you.
Stephen Perry
 
Steve,
Don't think Rhino was actually blaming you for his bullets coming apart, just makeing tongue in cheek remarks. Kinda like the "eversince you fixed my flat tire, my car overheats" that mechanics hear all the time. Aussie Bob, my friend paid $350 for his die sets, plus jackets, wire, lubes and of course the presses. After, I think about 6000 bullets, his stuff is paid for. This would be much higher if using Carbide dies.



Mike
 
Mike
Nothing wrong with steel dies. Actually one of our San Gabriel guys has a set of Blackman dies and I heard another will get his. Carbide dies are really more for high production but will keep their tolerances longer. Also if you want Detsch, Nemi, or Simonson your buying carbide. A friend of mine in Oregon has used his steel dies for 20 years and can't measure change in bullet measurements. Again keeping everything clean will help preserve your dies.
Stephen Perry
 
I was in fact making a tongue and cheek remark. No I don't make me own bullets. I was referring to the fact if I did make my own bullets I couldn't blame anyone but me for screwing the pooch!

RHINOUT!
 
Frank
Apology accepted. Bad choice of words. Like I said I spent 3 hrs writing the bullet making thread and 9 years learning how. If you have a good source of bullets your lucky.
Stephen Perry
 
Shooters
Let's recycle this Bullet Making Thread. I don't see much on this Board about bullet making. Besides I am familiar with it.
Stephen Perry
 
Ok Technocrats
I wrote this bullet thread awhile ago hoping to spark an interest in a few brave souls but as usual most of you guys are slow on the trigger. What I wrote is in depth but simple to understand. Let me go out on a limb here. I and others can make a better bullet than any commercial outfit out there with the exception of my Berger Bros. Check out Walt and myself teaching bullet making at the April 2006 San Gabriel BR School in the 6mmBR Article Archives.
A lot of you go tangent on alot of space station topics that pays the bills for this Forum. OK. But making bullets is an art going back many centuries, back to the Chinese. Verified kills on men at distances past 1/2 mile, not a field of 200 dead ground squirrels, during the Civil War came from custom bullets and dead nuts rifles. WW11, Vietnam, Afghanistan are what we can relate to in recent times. I have alot of respect for a 19 yr old soldier man that can guide bullets to a real target almost as far as they can see. We have missed some good shots, because of politics, of ridding the playing field of man sized vermin in our protracted Middle East conflict. It starts at the bullet. No good bullets no good results.
I know alot of you have read my bullet Thread I would like to have some of your thoughts. Remember I can help some interested in getting started in bullet making. Just now finishing up some bullets to go shoot the Phoenix 200's. By the way my bullet mentor is going to Phoenix. He usually wins and sets World Records.

Stephen Perry
IBS Director. NBRSA Shoot Director
Southern California Benchrest Shooters
Angeles Range, Lake View Terrace
NBRSA / IBS
 
I have read this thread several times. I have recently ordered dies and presses for bullet making. I may need your help to get started.

Thanks,

Scott Parker
 
Scott
I am ALWAYS willing to help someone start in bullet making. Berger Bullets is also available for technical support. How could you lose with the help offered.
I will be teaching bullet making again at BR 3 our Angeles Range BR School in 2008. We have at least a dozen or more bullet makers in our former San Gabriel Group. New thoughts old principles in bullet making.
Check out our San Gabriel BR 2 Benchrest School last April where Walt Berger and I taught several classes on bullet making with my equipment. It was a first for any BR School ever. Walt has taught bullet making at the Shot Shows before. Find our BR School in the 6mmBR Article Archives.
Stephen Perry
 
What is the going rate for all the equipment necessary to start making bullets? I would want to make .308, .284, .257, .243 and .224 bullets. The primary focus initially would be on the .308 and .243 bullets.

I find this fascinating as I am about to embark on a career as a compounding pharmacist. This is right up my alley; however, I do not know how cost prohibitive it is. Thanks!
 
SW
THe going rate is steep. If you buy chrome moly dies I remember about $800-900 from Blackman. Stainless dies say Nemi around $3000, less with Simonson. You need different die sets for different calibers. Presses, Nemi converts Rockchuckers maybe $400-500 each. You can do bullet making with 1 press but you will have 3 die changes. To do it right get 3 presses. Tools you probably have. Jackets and lead wire you need to check with Berger's or Bruno.
Fun hobby once you get past the startup costs.
Stephen Perry
 
for anyone who may be interested, there is a Rorschach 22 cal point up die on ebay right now starting at $5 and no reserve. It's brand new and has'nt been lapped out to final dimensions.
 
Scott
Corbin is the most established bullet making die company that I know. You will enjoy yourself. Ask for help if you need some.
Stephen Perry
 

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