Brass ?

[hambone1971]

What would you recommend?
I am using Wilson's now.

I like the Redding Type S Full Length Resizing Die and their bushings best (I also use Wilson). Use a Redding busing that sizes the brass just down enough so an Expander mandrel can bring it back to proper bullet tension size. Expander mandrel should be about .002 under the bullet size. I'd suggest stop neck trimming and just use the brass as is. My Lapua brass for 6,5CM is 15 or more reloads no annealing and just fine. Good luck ... HB

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

What caliber are you loading. If you already told us, I missed it.

 

[rjtfroggy]

6BR

 

[okie]

6BR

that brass should last forever...maybe someone here knows what is up....???

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

I think it is time to take a fired case, one of you loaded rounds without primer, die and rifle to a good gunsmith, with experience in benchrest shooting, for a check.

 

[rjtfroggy]

Brass comes out of die with no marks on it what so ever. Chamber has also been checked could see nothing wrong.
I think I just got a bad batch, but at least I have some to replace it with. Still need 100 more so I can load for 2 day matches next year.

 

[okie]

Brass comes out of die with no marks on it what so ever. Chamber has also been checked could see nothing wrong.
I think I just got a bad batch, but at least I have some to replace it with. Still need 100 more so I can load for 2 day matches next year.

yeah shoot a few from another lot 4 times and see---if same thing happens i would cast chamber

 

[searcher]

What would you recommend?
I am using Wilson's now.

There are three things that typically make necks crack (and/or in combination). The biggest, I think, is a full-length die that does not employ bushings. This type of die must take every neck down small enough to more than adequately hold a bullet in place. For most brass - that is WAY too much. Any quality die (Wilson's included) that employ bushings so you can ensure you are not taking the necks down further than necessary are fine. The second is the expander ball. They are designed to iron out dings in the necks after your die takes the necks down. When you take a neck way down further than needed - then stretch it back out with the expander, you are overworking the brass - which will ultimately create a brittle neck that cracks rather than expand when you size or when firing the bullet. Unless you are stepping on your brass or something - the expander ball is usually not needed. If you insist - better to open necks in a separate stage using neck mandrel OR reduce the size of your expander ball by spinning in a drill while attached to your drill by using a diamond file as it rotates. I tune all of my factory dies using this method for the most accurate ammo and longest lasting brass. The third item is an oversized or "egged out" neck in your chamber. While always a possibility - it is not likely the source. It can be identified by doing a chamber cast using Cerrosafe. If your Wilson die is a bushing die - I'd measure your loaded round at the end of the neck, closest to the mouth, then choose a bushing size that is about .003" smaller than that as a start. If your Wilson die is not a bushing die (do they even make such a thing?), I'd get another die. The whole idea is to not take your necks down any more than needed - which is exactly what most non-bushing dies do - or dies using bushings that are too small.
good luck!

 

[Ccrider]

How hot is your load?

 

[22DASHER]

Just take a case from a different or new lot and shoot/reload that piece of brass as many times as you can. That’ll help you identify if it’s your gun/die/methods or the brass. I would have a really hard time believing that many bad lapua cases are in one batch.

 

[divingin]

The second is the expander ball. They are designed to iron out dings in the necks after your die takes the necks down. When you take a neck way down further than needed - then stretch it back out with the expander, you are overworking the brass - which will ultimately create a brittle neck that cracks rather than expand when you size or when firing the bullet. Unless you are stepping on your brass or something - the expander ball is usually not needed. If you insist - better to open necks in a separate stage using neck mandrel OR reduce the size of your expander ball by spinning in a drill while attached to your drill by using a diamond file as it rotates. I tune all of my factory dies using this method for the most accurate ammo and longest lasting brass.

Sort of disagree. A standard full length die sizes down more than necessary in order to accommodate differing manufacturers brass thicknesses. The sizing ball expands it back out to get your final case mouth diameter in the ballpark despite the differing neck walls. If you use an unadulterated standard die, some sort of expander is necessary due to the initial too-small sizing. Any re-expansion is going to work the brass, so that step is the same whether you use the ball in the die or a separate expander. Removal of the ball will eliminate the first pass (expander ball going into the case), but that's done before sizing, so will not work the brass much. Reducing your sizing ball diameter will make for a very tight neck when loading.


One question for the OP: What do your neck diameters measure in 3 instances: After sizing, with a bullet seated, and after firing?

 

[bozo699]

have you measured your chamber to confirm your your trim length?
Wayne

 

[searcher]

Sort of disagree. A standard full length die sizes down more than necessary in order to accommodate differing manufacturers brass thicknesses. The sizing ball expands it back out to get your final case mouth diameter in the ballpark despite the differing neck walls. If you use an unadulterated standard die, some sort of expander is necessary due to the initial too-small sizing. Any re-expansion is going to work the brass, so that step is the same whether you use the ball in the die or a separate expander. Removal of the ball will eliminate the first pass (expander ball going into the case), but that's done before sizing, so will not work the brass much. Reducing your sizing ball diameter will make for a very tight neck when loading.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. You refer to "unadulterated standard die", though I'm talking about BUSHING DIES. I said if you are not using one - you should get rid of it. Factory (NON-BUSHING) dies take the neck down way more than necessary for most brass. The expander ball opens it back up by a large amount afterwards - though not as much as it was before sizing. The idea is to use a bushing that only takes the brass down to the amount needed for your brass. If you do this properly - you don't overwork the brass and you don't need the process of the expander ball to open what would have been a tiny hole to get the bullet in. If you use too small of a bushing - you will either need the expander ball or other method to open the neck. You can take the expander ball down in size- but you do that on a BUSHING DIE where you can then use the proper sized bushing so your neck opening is the correct size. You can't do that in a standard non-bushing die. You are free to disagree with those of us who successfully do this, though.

 

[bozo699]

Perhaps I wasn't clear. You refer to "unadulterated standard die", though I'm talking about BUSHING DIES. I said if you are not using one - you should get rid of it. Factory (NON-BUSHING) dies take the neck down way more than necessary for most brass. The expander ball opens it back up by a large amount afterwards - though not as much as it was before sizing. The idea is to use a bushing that only takes the brass down to the amount needed for your brass. If you do this properly - you don't overwork the brass and you don't need the process of the expander ball to open what would have been a tiny hole to get the bullet in. If you use too small of a bushing - you will either need the expander ball or other method to open the neck. You can take the expander ball down in size- but you do that on a BUSHING DIE where you can then use the proper sized bushing so your neck opening is the correct size. You can't do that in a standard non-bushing die. You are free to disagree with those of us who successfully do this, though.

I don’t disagree with your thoughts and process and I myself own many many bushing dies but I have found the runout to be more than I like so for my competition rifles anymore I use my bushing dies to produce my most accurate loads then I buy a custom honed f/l die that has my preferred neck tension with virtually zero runout. The op stated he wasn’t sizing the necks much if I recall it was a thou or thou and a half on each side,... .002 or .003 total so unless he is measuring wrong I don’t believe oversizing his brass is the problem. I also agree with others that it’s unlikely not impossible but unlikely 150 Lapua cases went to shit in 4 firings do to faulty brass. Sounded like he wasn’t hot rodding the load,.... so I’m guessing if he is correct with his statements about charges and neck sizing and clearances he has a issue with turning, case length or a die or chamber with a defect but then I don’t have his rifle, dies and brass in front of me with all my measuring equipment. Ultimately he’s gonna have to figure this out.
Wayne

 

[searcher]

I don’t disagree with your thoughts and process and I myself own many many bushing dies but I have found the runout to be more than I like so for my competition rifles anymore I use my bushing dies to produce my most accurate loads then I buy a custom honed f/l die that has my preferred neck tension with virtually zero runout. The op stated he wasn’t sizing the necks much if I recall it was a thou or thou and a half on each side,... .002 or .003 total so unless he is measuring wrong I don’t believe oversizing his brass is the problem. I also agree with others that it’s unlikely not impossible but unlikely 150 Lapua cases went to shit in 4 firings do to faulty brass. Sounded like he wasn’t hot rodding the load,.... so I’m guessing if he is correct with his statements about charges and neck sizing and clearances he has a issue with turning, case length or a die or chamber with a defect but then I don’t have his rifle, dies and brass in front of me with all my measuring equipment. Ultimately he’s gonna have to figure this out.
Wayne

Yeah. I hear you. I think runout is the least of his present concerns. Crank those bushings down tight or try to use too small a bushing and they will produce severe runout, but the point is using a die that doesn't murder your brass. Grossly screwed up Lapua brass out of the box and horrific chambers exist - but they are pretty darn rare relative to dies that overwork brass. I agree with you that the custom dies without bushings will produce the least runout - but one also gives up the ability to tune neck tension, short of turning some necks on new brass to suit their die. Decisions, decisions..... Ha!