Brass shoulder bumb

[magicman]

Hey Everyone,
I have a question on brass, I went to the range Monday and shot my 22-250. Getting back home I have a decapping station set up away from sizing and seating station where I push the fired primers out and clean the primer pocket. Once this is done and brass is cleaned I use the Hornady comparator to measure head space or to see where I need to bump shoulder back 0.002. I got an average of 1.567 so I was looking to bump to 1.565, my question is I have 5 to 6 pieces that measure 1.568-1.570 that I would need to set die down more to get them to 1.565. Do you fella's recommend doing this?? I am using Lupua brass that has been fired twice.

 

[INTJ]

It depends. The only way to tell is to measure each piece after sizing and see what you get. I measure all my brass after sizing for my competition rifles, and there is variation in sizing even with the die set the same. The amount of lube used, how long you dwell with the ram fully up, the hardness of the brass, and deflection in the press can all effect how much actual sizing you get.

 

[skeeljc]

Once you set your die to bump what you want it does not matter how the brass measures it will all come out the same (providing it is all longer than your setting).

It will usually take three or four firings for new brass to expand fully to your chamber.

I would bump back .002" shorter than your longest brass, size all of them and reload them. Eventually all the fired brass will be the same.

 

[dgeesaman]

Do those long pieces chamber easily?

David

 

[cw308]

dgeesaman Dave ask the right question . You don't want to oversize your brass .Does the longest fired case chamber?

 

[magicman]

Thanks guys! Yes all brass is chambering. I just want the brass measurements to be consistent. After resizing (leaving die set in one place) the 1.570 bumps to 1.569. I pulled my bolt and took firing pin out and I need to be at 1.564-1.565 for bolt to fall shut on its on with no help. I heard this is what you want so please correct me if I'm wrong. I do anneal brass after four firings, I am just having a hard time understanding why the brass is not consistent even with my 6.5 CM, 308, 223, and 6 BR. I think Skeelljc might be on to something but again I thought your bolt should drop by its self to have the correct head space. I use Whidden, Redding, and Foster dies and am very anal about my reloading, what I mean is a take time and try and do every process correctly and that's why I'm reaching out to you fella's.

 

[big john 5394]

You should all the time it will kept everything consistent .

 

[Drolds72]

As much as we would like them to, every piece of brass is not going to size perfectly the same. Seems like even with annealing I get 1 or 2 out of 100 that doesn’t behave. Set aside and use as a fouler.

 

[cw308]

You have to rememberyour brass is expanding also which will shorten the case , that was my problem in the beginning . I ordered a Go Guage , with a stripped bolt I installed the Guage , bolt handle dropped without any resistance , added a piece of scotch tape to the base of the Guage until it dropped with very little resistance . I recorded that measurement and set it in my RCBS Precision Mic. I bumped it back from that measurement .002 , don't want to set at zero will add wear to your locking lugs , you don't want that . Your chamber length will not change you barrel leade will get longer . Can also find using your strpiied bolt only it's the bolt lift to find it . Hope I helped .

Chris

 

[INTJ]

Thanks guys! Yes all brass is chambering. I just want the brass measurements to be consistent. After resizing (leaving die set in one place) the 1.570 bumps to 1.569. I pulled my bolt and took firing pin out and I need to be at 1.564-1.565 for bolt to fall shut on its on with no help. I heard this is what you want so please correct me if I'm wrong. I do anneal brass after four firings, I am just having a hard time understanding why the brass is not consistent even with my 6.5 CM, 308, 223, and 6 BR. I think Skeelljc might be on to something but again I thought your bolt should drop by its self to have the correct head space. I use Whidden, Redding, and Foster dies and am very anal about my reloading, what I mean is a take time and try and do every process correctly and that's why I'm reaching out to you fella's.

You want the brass .002 to .003" shorter than how it comes out of the chamber. Simply take a fired case, deprime without sizing, and measure. It might take 2 or 3 firings for the brass to stabilize in length after firing. Don't worry about trying to find it with the bolt dropping. I use that only when chambering a barrel and am finalizing headspace with a go gauge.

However, not all brass will size the same, even with the same exact sizer die setting and annealing. I load 70-75 for a match and I measure everyone after sizing. Most are within .0005, assuming I can measure that accurately with my Mitituyo digital calipers, and are good to go. Some come out .001" long and I'll size them again to get them where I want them. If one happens to come out .001" short, it becomes a sighter round.

That is using an extremely well made German built Prazipress. Other presses, like my CoAx and Rochucker Supreme, have more variation in sizing because they have more deflection.

BTW, if you REALLY want to become anal about reloading, start shooting 600 and 1000 yd Benchrest with us...........

 

[K22]

Won't repeat some the excellent advice already given. Just offer a few items to ponder regarding using bump gauges and calipers.

If you're using the Hornaday anvil attachment with your bump gauge check to make sure it fits square on the caliper jaw every time you use it. A friend of mine was having inconsistent reading on fired and size cases. When I examined his process I discovered the faulty anvil fit. We toss the anvil and use the bump gauge with the other end of the case resting directly against the jaw of the caliper. Measurement consistency improved.

In my experience it takes some time to develop a consistent process to measure using a caliper and bump gauge. Applying uniform pressure on the caliper helps obtain consistent readings. I also found that rotating the case against the caliper jaw helps align the case in the bump gauge.

One of the reasons I like the Whidden bump gauges is that it's a single piece and caliper group specific. There are no inserts thus no addition interfaces. With Hornady gauges, some consistency improvement might be obtain if you place match marks on the insert and holder thereby assuring that they are aligned the same way each time you use them. Of course if you don't disassemble the insert from the holder this is not a factor by if you using the holder with other caliper inserts thus disassembling each time then the match marks can help.

 

[Richard Coody]

With most rifles I use a very simple method. I shoot and resize brass with my die not set up for any shoulder bump until a piece of fired but not sized or.loaded brass chambers tight. That means it.takes some force to close the bolt. Now I can set.up my die for a shoulder bump. 1 to 2 thousandth for a bolt gun. Always check that the newly sized brass chambers easy in your rifle.

I would forget all that bolt drop business unless you have a.$1500 custom action.

 

[skeeljc]

When I put my Sinclair bump gauge on my digital caliper I always look at the caliper reading before I zero it to be sure it is the same every time.

 

[Bill Norris]

When I put my Sinclair bump gauge on my digital caliper I always look at the caliper reading before I zero it to be sure it is the same every time.

This is what I do as well. Seems to work out good so far.

 

[magicman]

Thanks again guys! INTJ I'm trying to hone my skills at local range that only goes out to 400 yards. I haven't gotten a one hole group yet but getting close,lol. All joking aside I have 3-rifles shooting 1/2 MOA at 400 and would love to stretch out to 600-1000 yards. K22, I have been using the Hornady anvil but will start not using it to see if measurements differ. Thanks Richard Coody and I do have a Impact Precision action. I mostly reload for target shooting trying to get the tightest groups I can on paper. This is why I was asking for everyone's advise or experience to learn from. I don't believe old dogs can't learn new tricks!!!!

 

[DJSBRS]

Some brass will not respond to the die settings as noted in the OP post. It is not unusual for this to happen based on that piece of brass metal make up and number times fired or how hot the brass has been fired compared to the other pieces. I have taken those difficult pieces and went back and reannealed properly again and then resized holding the die down for an extra few seconds. They should relax and respond to your die original setting with the proper shoulder bump you are expecting.

Yes, you can reset the die for that piece of brass and "make it bump to your size needed" but now your changing your whole lot based on new changes. When I get a piece that won't respond after the second annealing, I throw that piece out. It will always give you an issue. Not worth the hassle of keeping up with a renegade piece of brass.

DJ

DJ's Brass Service
205-461-46810

 

[Ccrider]

Once you set your die to bump what you want it does not matter how the brass measures it will all come out the same (providing it is all longer than your setting).

It will usually take three or four firings for new brass to expand fully to your chamber.

I would bump back .002" shorter than your longest brass, size all of them and reload them. Eventually all the fired brass will be the same.

I have not found this to be true. Some pieces will not size the same, even after running them twice. This is with Amp II annealed brass.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Dont automatically just bump .002 because thats what you read- and surely dont automatically do it on brass from another gun. Check the brass to see if its fully formed to your chamber before bumping it

 

[cw308]

I have been reloading for 25+ years for one rifle , barrel changes it starts all over again , love it . I never got into heating the neck and shoulders , I tried to shoot every Sunday if conditions are good don't shoot under 50° getting soft I guess . I shoot three 10 shot groups each trip at 200 yards . What has worked for me is each your I pick 90 cases , rotate each 30 cases and at the end of my season I dump the cases .April - November. Never had problems with my brass and got back to enjoying shooting . I guess we all go through going down that rabbit hole , I stopped before my head exploded . Find a accurate load stop playing and concentrate on form , it's more enjoyable. Be Well.
Chris

 

[wkdickinson]

Dont automatically just bump .002 because thats what you read- and surely dont automatically do it on brass from another gun. Check the brass to see if its fully formed to your chamber before bumping it

How do you "check to see that it is fully formed to your chamber"?