Brass question

[Hillhunter]

I have a competition coming up and I am wondering will my twice fired brass ( lapua 308) be as accurate as once fired bearing in mind I F/L size after each firing? Or am I better off getting new brass ?

 

[Preacher]

That shouldn't be a problem at all...
FL sizing each and every time is as consistent as it will ever get, until the brass work harden's to the point it will not size as good as it could....

 

[Hillhunter]

Thanks Preacher , I presume I will notice when the brass is work hardened, or will I ?

 

[gotcha]

Keep a log of cartridge dimensions before and after sizing. As the brass work hardens It will no longer reduce in diameter as much as fresher brass. when the sized neck dimension gets to .001" inch plus, its time to anneal. Shooters on this side of the pond frequently anneal after every firing.

 

[dkhunt14]

I remember reading an article in Precision Shooting where they took PPC Brass that was once fired and shot it against 2 and 3 times fired brass and it opened up groups. I can't remember how much. I believe they did the testing at 200 yards. Matt

 

[Hillhunter]

i was happy enough when i got Preachers reply , thank you , now that i see dkhununt14 ,s (thank you also ) answer i am confused, do i take the chance with the twice fired?

 

[Erik Cortina]

i was happy enough when i got Preachers reply , thank you , now that i see dkhununt14 ,s (thank you also ) answer i am confused, do i take the chance with the twice fired?

Tony Boyer does not shoot brass in competition until it has at least two firings on it.

You will be fine.

 

[strut64]

Hillhunter, there is a lot of people who use bushing dies or collet dies that do not work harden the neck like a conventional FL length die. My gunsmith suggested Redding Type S bushing die but a lot of guys like the lee collet type as well.

 

[Erik Cortina]

OP, do not fall for the neck sizing trap, it will give you more headaches than it's worth.

 

[artbosco]

I have a competition coming up and I am wondering will my twice fired brass (Lapua 308) be as accurate as once fired bearing in mind I F/L size after each firing? Or am I better off getting new brass ?

Mike Stinnett [World Record .0077" group] believes it takes at least 8 firings to fully form a case. Should you eventually subscribe to that notion, you've got 6 more firings to go before taking yours to the competitive line. Read the story and details on his record setting group here: http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2013/08/inside-look-at-world-record-0077-group-the-gun-and-ammo/

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I once went to a big match with new and once-fired brass (not mixed together,) and regretted it.

I F/L resize my Lapua brass after the first firing with a small base Redding Type S bushing die and I now anneal after every firing with my Giraud annealer. I usually retire my brass after 8 firings when the primer pockets get a little loose.

I will point out that I am talking F-TR competition.

 

[artbosco]

OP, do not fall for the neck sizing trap, it will give you more headaches than it's worth.

+1 I'd describe it more like opening a can of sauerkraut.

 

[dkhunt14]

I have a competition coming up and I am wondering will my twice fired brass (Lapua 308) be as accurate as once fired bearing in mind I F/L size after each firing? Or am I better off getting new brass ?

Mike Stinnett [World Record .0077" group] believes it takes at least 8 firings to fully form a case. Should you eventually subscribe to that notion, you've got 6 more firings to go before taking yours to the competitive line. Read the story and details on his record setting group here: http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2013/08/inside-look-at-world-record-0077-group-the-gun-and-ammo/

Different animal between 6PPC and 30 BR and the other cases that longrange shooters use. The necks on them for matches are usually turned very thin and they use custom dies without much movement of brass. In the longerange game they shoot a lot hotter and need to size harder. The brass is a lot thicker in the neck and that gives more hold. I misunderstood his question on the first post and thought he wanted to shoot once fired and more then once fired together. I have shot many very small groups at 1000 with fireforming brass. Even when you formed a 308 baer from 340 Weatherby. I shot a 10 shot group of 3.195 in heavy gun in 2005 which was at the time the second smallest group ever fired in 1000 yard BR. This was fireforming cases into a Baer. It is still probably in the top 10 of 10 shot groups ever fired. There are only 3 groups fired in the 2 inch range and one was fired at Nationals over the weekend. Matt

 

[searcher]

Two loadings is like better than new to me. Kind of like throwing out your shoes as soon as they start to get comfortable.

 

[Joe R]

I have a competition coming up and I am wondering will my twice fired brass ( lapua 308) be as accurate as once fired bearing in mind I F/L size after each firing? Or am I better off getting new brass ?

I just started using Lapua brass after shooting Federal brass for a few years and was on my 6th firing and doing well. I decided to switch to Lapua simply because it seems to be the gold standard and I've got a 600 yard match on the 21st. On my first firing I thought it was crap, it performed pretty badly but after my second firing it is starting to look OK. and I think I might actually be able to use it.

So to answer your question I think the brass is just getting fire formed now. The best may be yet ahead, I am ever the optimist.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Hillhunter]

thanks Joe

 

[chkunz]

I have read thru this a few times and you have received a lot of information, some may be correct depending on the specifics of your application but some appears not helpful and some appears incorrect. I think you should start with a better description of the application for this brass; what is the cartridge and what type of gun will it be fired in and what is the type of competition. The answer for a tight chamber bench rest rifle that requires neck turning to 0.0001 tolerance is different from an AR match rifle.

 

[Hillhunter]

T rex, i am using Lapua 308 brass , in a Bartlein 1 in 12 twist 32 inch barrel, action is off a Tikka T3, this gun is used for all targets from 300 yards to 1000 yards, competitions are all FTR, thanks.

 

[chkunz]

You have excellent brass and it will last for many accurate loadings for your application in your quality bolt action rifle even if you full length resize. You did not say what load you are using but if you are using heavy loads the primer pockets will eventually get loose (for accuracy the 308 likes a stiff load but not a max load). If you bump the shoulder back on each reloading the brass will start to get thin near the base but I have never had a head separation in that area with a bolt gun (the M14 stretches the case about six thousandths on each firing and will separate in that area after five or six reloadings). For your application you may find that the neck tension will be reduced after many loadings because the brass looses its spring, you can delay this by using a neck sizing bushing that works the brass less than a standard die. You will probably use only light neck tension in your application anyway so that will extend the case life even further. I like to start a new barrel with new brass and use the brass until the barrel needs replacing and then buy a new barrel and new brass for the new barrel. Life is too short to anneal brass so when you think the cases have reached the end of their life send them to me and buy new for yourself.

 

[Erik Cortina]

You have excellent brass and it will last for many accurate loadings for your application in your quality bolt action rifle even if you full length resize. You did not say what load you are using but if you are using heavy loads the primer pockets will eventually get loose (for accuracy the 308 likes a stiff load but not a max load). If you bump the shoulder back on each reloading the brass will start to get thin near the base but I have never had a head separation in that area with a bolt gun (the M14 stretches the case about six thousandths on each firing and will separate in that area after five or six reloadings). For your application you may find that the neck tension will be reduced after many loadings because the brass looses its spring, you can delay this by using a neck sizing bushing that works the brass less than a standard die. You will probably use only light neck tension in your application anyway so that will extend the case life even further. I like to start a new barrel with new brass and use the brass until the barrel needs replacing and then buy a new barrel and new brass for the new barrel. Life is too short to anneal brass so when you think the cases have reached the end of their life send them to me and buy new for yourself.

Use a F/L neck bushing die. F/L size just enough to get your bolt to close without resistance and you will not thin out cases at the base.

I disagree with T-REX. Most of the guys doing well in competition anneal their brass - life is too short for inaccurate loads.