I have some cartridges That I was useing for the brass and after shooting some of them I started getting split necks! A gut next to me said Wow what load data was I using and I said they were factory to which he looked at the boxes , the old Rem. cleanbore green boxes and said I should contact Remington and give them the end flap number! I did and Rem. said to stop shooting them as the were made in 1940's. They are 270 win 150 round nose So my question is does the brass harden over time or is there a combination of more valuables and can this brass be salvaged? Thank You , Ron
Brass hardeing with age
- Thread starter RW
- Start date
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
They have no idea what theyve been thru since 1940 they wouldnt dare tell you to shoot em
Loaded cartridges sitting around for decades are known for neck failures. I seen some cartridges where the necks split with out being fired. They split while sitting in storage and were probably very very old.
This is why surplus ammo is steel cased and some even have a lacquer seal around the whole cartridge.
This is why surplus ammo is steel cased and some even have a lacquer seal around the whole cartridge.
Go to Norma's website, under "cases", you will find this :"the case neck is annealed to become softer. This prevents gas leaks and enables the case to hold the bullet firmly for at least 10 years without cracking as a result of aging material. This problem has really come to light recently with the .17 rimfire rounds....only they can split over only a few months time due to improper annealing.......these cases must be necked down and annealed AFTER the priming compound is inserted which has caused problems maintaining a uniform anneal.
Rw, I've used plenty of older Remington brass from the 40's and 50's. If they've been stored properly you may pull the bullet, fertilize the lawn with powder and anneal the case. If you are unable or don't know anyone who can properly anneal, send your cases to http://djsbrass.com/#2951 or another reputable person. You'll be good to go.
XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
I guess it kind makes sense, the neck on the case is under stress from neck tension/friction fit of having the bullet seated. Over time that constant stress causes the metal to become "fatigued" for lack of a better term (though I think fatigue is usually associated with cyclical stresses). I can see it.
It's called precipitation or age hardening. Aluminum and other metals are also susceptible to it and can be artificially induced.
There is no such thing as air hardening, aging or precipitation hardening in 70/30 brass. You guys just keep making up crap.
Brians356
Gold $$ Contributor
And you can apply a drop of a penetrant like Kroil to the neck/bullet junction and let it soak for a while. It might help.
Mr Webster, Perhaps you could enlighten us as to what (in your opinion/ knowledge) this phenomena is and what causes it?
Well if Webster won't I will. The phenomenon is stress corrosion cracking, the mechanism is de-zincification. The old ammo has been stored incorrectly. I have brass dating from WW2. Works fine. No annealing required.
Webster is right. C24000/C26000 can not be precipitation hardened. I can take pictures of my ASM book to show it. It's probably cracking due to season cracking. Which in that case, all the annealing in the world won't help it.
I had to look up the term seasoning. It means stress corrosion.
http://www.nace.org/Corrosion-Central/Corrosion-101/Dezincification/
An article on dezincification. I honestly don't think it should occur on cartridges. They would have to be in an acid or alkaline water solution for a long time? It occurs mostly in pipes, pipe fittings and valves. You can have stress corrosion cracking without dezincification. All you need is the presence of some chemical and high humidity. Dezincification leaves a white residue. The cracked surface would look like a sponge.
I think a few bad cases get past inspection at the factory. They don't x-ray case necks for internal cracks after the severe forming. Very small amounts of microscopic iron oxides normally occur in copper and brass. I am sure cartridge cases are not made from 99.9% pure electrolytic copper. These oxides can lead to crack formation during factory swagging or our sizing. I bought 200 Lapua cases for my 6BR. One neck cracked on the first firing the rest had at least ten reloads without cracking before I annealed the first time. Had to be a factory swagging or oxide problem.
Most of the comments I see are about cases in a lot cracking, usually when they are old. No-one mentions that there are few people that have problems but there are millions of cases reloaded every year without a problem. If you can afford a rifle with a scope you can afford to buy 100 new cases. Quality control is a lot better now than in the past. I have a Redding FL die and a type-S die. I noticed the FL die closes the neck a huge amount before pulling the expander button thru. Not a good situation.
http://www.nace.org/Corrosion-Central/Corrosion-101/Dezincification/
An article on dezincification. I honestly don't think it should occur on cartridges. They would have to be in an acid or alkaline water solution for a long time? It occurs mostly in pipes, pipe fittings and valves. You can have stress corrosion cracking without dezincification. All you need is the presence of some chemical and high humidity. Dezincification leaves a white residue. The cracked surface would look like a sponge.
I think a few bad cases get past inspection at the factory. They don't x-ray case necks for internal cracks after the severe forming. Very small amounts of microscopic iron oxides normally occur in copper and brass. I am sure cartridge cases are not made from 99.9% pure electrolytic copper. These oxides can lead to crack formation during factory swagging or our sizing. I bought 200 Lapua cases for my 6BR. One neck cracked on the first firing the rest had at least ten reloads without cracking before I annealed the first time. Had to be a factory swagging or oxide problem.
Most of the comments I see are about cases in a lot cracking, usually when they are old. No-one mentions that there are few people that have problems but there are millions of cases reloaded every year without a problem. If you can afford a rifle with a scope you can afford to buy 100 new cases. Quality control is a lot better now than in the past. I have a Redding FL die and a type-S die. I noticed the FL die closes the neck a huge amount before pulling the expander button thru. Not a good situation.
"I think a few bad cases get past inspection at the factory. "
That's it???? That is the best you can come up with??? NO. I do not believe you. How do you explain the fact that I have seen several {at least 3} boxes of old ammo and absolutely every single cartridge had a split neck. They were from the 40's mostly, some from the 50's...and no, I wasn't trying to use them, yes, all my brass that I use is new...but I saw them never the less. And you are telling us that the factory QC dept. "missed" every one of these cases???? Zero chance dude. Come up with a better excuse if you want to sell this story.
That's it???? That is the best you can come up with??? NO. I do not believe you. How do you explain the fact that I have seen several {at least 3} boxes of old ammo and absolutely every single cartridge had a split neck. They were from the 40's mostly, some from the 50's...and no, I wasn't trying to use them, yes, all my brass that I use is new...but I saw them never the less. And you are telling us that the factory QC dept. "missed" every one of these cases???? Zero chance dude. Come up with a better excuse if you want to sell this story.
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