Brass Brass Brass

[chop house]

Either had 1. The wrong die 2. A body die 3. A bushing die with no bushing installed.

 

[joshb]

Either had 1. The wrong die 2. A body die 3. A bushing die with no bushing installed.

That’s where I am.
I’d like to see some pics of your die showing the markings. We already know you don’t do much research. Let’s start over with some pictures of your brass and dies.
If you want, I’ll figure it out for you. Send me ten pieces of the brass and your sizing die. Should take ten minutes to suss out the problem.
PM me and I’ll give you my address.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Six out of twenty on new Starline brass had the bullet falling into the powder. No way.

 

[varmintshooter]

Maybe you are trying 20 cal bullets in a 223

 

[SeabeeKen]

It was absolutely sold as new, and was new. Bright brass when looking down to the primer hole, that's one way to tell.

I get a chuckle when anything gun related is made in a clearly anti gun state, in this case, MD. I always size my new brass for safety and consistency sake

 

[TTE]

I have always sized new brass. Always!

^ ^ ^ ^ this
Didn't know any one didn't.

 

[HandgunHTR]

^ ^ ^ ^ this
Didn't know any one didn't.

I don’t resize new Alpha or ADG brass as it is packaged so that it won’t beat together. Lapua only gets run through an expander mandrel to get rid of any neck dings.
I don’t use cheap brass anymore because my time is more valuable than the money I save on it.

 

[Doom]

Resizing with my RCBS full length small base die, after taking the primers out, did not work. The neck was still too large. Bullet still dropped into the case. I thought that might work too, but it did not. You always size new brass? Shouldn't the factory make them the correct size to begin with?

This doesn't make sense. The only way this could happen is if the decapping/expander mandrel is the wrong size or the die is the wrong sizer or improperly set. Remove the decaying pin and size a case. the case neck ID should measure less than 0.221". Measure the expander ball dimension (widest part of the expander. It should be about o.222" or slightly less.

Also to be clear, you don't usually have to size new brass except in the case where the necks are deformed. The manufacturing process produces a sized case. Resizing new cases on reduces the size variance between the cases in given lot. Cases that are sized smaller than the die are unaffected.

 

[SSL]

I thought sizing the neck with an RCBS small base die would tighten them enough, but since they were 30 thousandths over in some, that did not work. Nothing I could do would work. They were new.

First - "small base" dies only squeeze the base of the brass (back by the rim) slightly smaller for functioning in some semi-autos without feeding issues. They certainly aren't going to do a thing about the issue you state - necks too large.
Second - if you are indeed running cases through a full-length die, it has to be adjusted wrong. It isn't the brass's fault if your die isn't sizing the neck properly if it is properly adjusted. There has to be an issue with the die. Is the de-priming stem backed out enough to allow the case to fully enter the die with the die just touching the shellholder? If the case base is hitting the de-priming stem and halting the stroke prior to the brass fully entering the neck-sizing portion of the die, you have sure problems. If, as you say, the necks are measuring 30 thousandths over, they are not properly entering the die...or you have the wrong die to begin with.
I have never, in almost 65 years of loading, encountered such an issue. And yes, I size brand new brass as well as check case length and neck thickness prior to the rest of the loading process. That's just what a careful loader does.

 

[bks22345]

I bought 500 First Breech new primed brass. What a disaster. Primers literally falling out, and me, only noticing it after loading a hundred a fifty rounds of .223. They were just sliding out. Got my money back, Republic Ammunition has great customer service, but I was still out many, many, hours of work at first trying to make things right, and then just getting the primers out to use again. Threw the whole lot away. Then I bought NEW starline brass, primed it myself, and started to reload (.223) and lo and behold, the neck sizes were messed up on SIX of the first twenty I grabbed. Apparently, after researching it, bullets sliding into the primed and powered brass while trying to seat them is a common thing especially with .223 Starline brass. I never had this problem before. Some were over 30 thousandths too wide, so I get why it was happening. Got some money back from Midway so far, still waiting to hear from where I bought the rest and then Starline itself. What I want to know is, what brass does not have these kinds of problems? It's just not worth my time to try and fix NEW stuff. I would rather pay more, and just be able to load it. Any ideas? Thanks. I buy .308, .223, Grendel, and 6.5 Creedmoor mostly, just to let you know the sizes I'm looking for. I am almost thinking that once fired brass would be a better way to go nowadays. At least you know it worked!

I don’t care what brass it is, (starline, Lapua, alpha, Peterson,….) I run a mandrel through it, chamfer it, and then neck size it. Primers, powder and projectiles are too expensive to waste.

 

[dellet]

Someone needs to step back and look over their choices on what they are doing. You need to start all over. And find someone else that has been doing this for a while. Let them show you what you need to do.

Looking over your post and all the things you have run into and the guns you blew up, you need to step back before you kill yourself or someone else

I would have to second this, at some point with all the problems you have had with so many different manufacturers, so many different rifles, so many different cartridges, you have to look at the only common denominator.

Reading through your previous posts and threads, you need some hands on help. Things that jump out are grinding a die and shell holder so that your resized brass matches unfired factory rounds instead of your chamber stand out as huge problems in understanding basic loading rules. If you measure many budget factory rounds like the Hornady Black Box ammo referenced, you will find it to be shorter than SAAMI spec. You were going to custom make dies to bump a shoulder back .020”, when you only really needed .002”. This is the difference between loading for your chamber, custom ammunition and loading to match some random round you found somewhere. Yes I consider factory ammunition “some random round” because it will fit anything that might find it’s way to a shelf to be sold.

Enlarging gas ports on AR style rifles, allows more powder choices. It’s a common thing to do when people don’t really under stand that bolt actions and gas operated rifles really do need different sections in loading manuals. Enlarging a port to accommodate a certain powder, is a good way to have cycling or extraction problems with a different powder. More so with an AR10 rifle. Over gassed rifles are known to pull case heads off.

You need the proper tools to give measurements when people ask as a start. It’s tough for people who want to help without being there, to offer any real help when they can’t get answers to pertinent questions.

 

[nmkid]

Hmmm. I think I smell something!

 

[searcher]

Six out of twenty on new Starline brass had the bullet falling into the powder. No way.

I tend to agree with this, though it seems I have read more weird posts about true "defects" in Starline brass than any other that I can recall. Maybe because more entry level shooters tend to buy less expensive brass and have problems due to lack of solid reloading skills maybe? Or maybe there are problems with the brass?

In this case, all this guy needs to do is measure the thickness of the brass at the mouth. If it is over .010", the die would provide enough grip to at least not allow the bullet to drop in, using a factory non-bushing die, showing him it is die setup. That brass would have to be paper thin to do what he says is happening.

 

[K22]

I thought sizing the neck with an RCBS small base die would tighten them enough, but since they were 30 thousandths over in some, that did not work. Nothing I could do would work. They were new.

No disrespect intended, but you are in dire need of an experienced reloading mentor rather than trying to solve these issues online.

 

[divingin]

First - "small base" dies only squeeze the base of the brass (back by the rim) slightly smaller for functioning in some semi-autos without feeding issues. They certainly aren't going to do a thing about the issue you state - necks too large.

My small base dies are basically standard full length dies cut a little tighter towards the bottom. They use the same diameter neck area for sizing, and the same expander ball as a standard die.