Blue printing

[swampthang]

What is blue printing the fire control and what is a blueprinted Jewell trigger?
As a shooter and not a gunsmith,this doesn't make sense TO ME.

 

[butchlambert]

What is blue printing the fire control and what is a blueprinted Jewell trigger?
As a shooter and not a gunsmith,this doesn't make sense TO ME.

Misnomer, if you have no blueprints, you can't blueprint the above mentioned.

 

[kendog]

Misnomer, if you have no blueprints, you can't blueprint the above mentioned.

This times 1000. Blueprinting to what?? As an example, The closest thing to a "blueprinted" Rem 700 action is a stock one. They can be tightened and squared up, but to what "blueprint"? Same with the Jewell trigger.

 

[RWO]

For the average shooter, "blue printing" anything is largely a mythical process by which unscrupulous gunsmiths extract cash from ignorant shooters. Those shooters would be far better off using the money to buy ammo for practice instead of trying to buy accuracy over the counter.

RWO

 

[swampthang]

Well I'm,no gunsmith at all.
I kinda sorta understand, but not really,
I understand a blueprint, but what's a blueprints Jewell trigger?
What's the difference?
I have several Jewell on my benchrest guns, not sure if they're blueprinted.
My actions are trued. Squared , and even had a sleeved 700, but not blueprinted, do they shoot smaller groups with higher scores?
Not being smart ass. Just asking the pros

 

[BoydAllen]

Although not literally correct, the term refers to corrective work, typically done to factory actions, that if properly done makes them potentially more accurate. I have seen instances where this sort of work had an obvious positive effect. I would agree that not everyone who undertakes this kind of work is equally skilled or tooled. Factory actions can be pretty screwed up. Bolt lugs may not both bear on their seats; action threads may not be concentric with the bolt raceway, or square to the action face. Action faces can be out of square, and on and on. At today's labor rates, many have concluded that purchasing a better quality action, such as one of the Remington clones, or a custom action, is a better alternative than correcting every possible fault of a factory action.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Blueprinting is not the correct term, but it commonly used. What I do when I go through a fire control is bush and turn the pin to fit, fit a modified shroud to less than .001" this ensures no drag or binding on the pin even when in the cocked position. On some actions I will increase firing pin fall as well. On a Jewell trigger you straighten the side plates, polish the internals, stone the sear, and tweak the reset spring. However I find the best think to do with a Jewell is replace it with a BixnAndy.

 

[X Ring Accuracy]

Blueprinting is an old hot-rodding term that was used when an engine was machined to better tolerances. The dimensions were needed for pistons, rings, bearings, etc. Hence .020 or .030 over pistons, .030 under cam or main bearing dimension, knurled guides, the list goes on and on. Someone in the gun plumbing business latched onto the term as he did in fact recut surfaces. It is a far stretch from there to here but it is used. A better word would be truing.

 

[Riesel]

Blueprinting is an old hot-rodding term that was used when an engine was machined to better tolerances. The dimensions were needed for pistons, rings, bearings, etc. Hence .020 or .030 over pistons, .030 under cam or main bearing dimension, knurled guides, the list goes on and on. Someone in the gun plumbing business latched onto the term as he did in fact recut surfaces. It is a far stretch from there to here but it is used. A better word would be truing.

Blueprinting an engine in my hot rod days meant machining and assemble an engine to max specifications in an effort to reduce drag and friction. It wouldn't be all that unusual to build an engine that used oil and would run like a bat out of Egypt, even brand new. Racing against somebody with an old wore out 327 could be a humbling experience. I'm pretty sure building actions or triggers "loose" to reduce friction is counter intuitive, probably even dangerous.

 

[carlsbad]

Printing.

 

[X Ring Accuracy]

Printing.

Spot on

 

[284winner]

Never did know that the blueprinting term came from the engine blueprinting rhetoric. In the late 70s and early 80s, i certainly had my share of racing and building engines. Balancing and blueprinting was a very common term then. Balancing is what i commonly did by weighing pistons, rods, rod caps etc and ground each so they all weighed within a quarter gram of eachother.
Blue printing is an interesting term. Basically means identically specking out everything the same on another engine or several engines. A blueprinted set of engines will have the EXACT same crank clearances. They will have the exact same piston to wall clearances, ring gap clearance, cam timing, head port and chamber volumes and so on where factory spec will vary slightly. This is not done to actions. Not all actions that are "Blue printed" are to exact spec as another. This term blueprint is a very loose term but most gun builders understand it's definition as cleaning up, trueing and lapping of an action and bolt.

 

[butchlambert]

Never did know that the blueprinting term came from the engine blueprinting rhetoric. In the late 70s and early 80s, i certainly had my share of racing and building engines. Balancing and blueprinting was a very common term then. Balancing is what i commonly did by weighing pistons, rods, rod caps etc and ground each so they all weighed within a quarter gram of eachother.
Blue printing is an interesting term. Basically means identically specking out everything the same on another engine or several engines. A blueprinted set of engines will have the EXACT same crank clearances. They will have the exact same piston to wall clearances, ring gap clearance, cam timing, head port and chamber volumes and so on where factory spec will vary slightly. This is not done to actions. Not all actions that are "Blue printed" are to exact spec as another. This term blueprint is a very loose term but most gun builders understand it's definition as cleaning up, trueing and lapping of an action and bolt.

Understand what you are saying, but why do all the motors dyno differently?

 

[savagedasher]

Understand what you are saying, but why do all the motors dyno differently?

Because of the voltage. Smile Larry

 

[butchlambert]

Because of the voltage. Smile Larry

Yup, must be.

 

[284winner]

Understand what you are saying, but why do all the motors dyno differently?

Exactly. Because engines aren't truley blueprinted. They'd have to be exactly the same in every aspect. There is no need to do that. Every engine IS different just like every action is different. No two are exact spec. Maybe very close but not exact

 

[butchlambert]

Exactly. Because engines aren't truley blueprinted. They'd have to be exactly the same in every aspect. There is no need to do that. Every engine IS different just like every action is different. No two are exact spec. Maybe very close but not exact

I'm sorry, I read your post to say they were all done to the same specs.

 

[perry42]

Years ago (late 50's early 60's) R3350 radial engines were reworked in Sweden for the US Government. VR-1 out of Norfolk set several prop records in Super Connies crossing the Atlantic. Turns out that they were rebuilding the engines to tight factory specs. Blueprinting ala hot rod engine builders.

perry42

 

[284winner]

I'm sorry, I read your post to say they were all done to the same specs.

I guess I am saying in order for one to be blueprinted by its very own definition, it would have to be exactly the twin to another. There is no "within spec" on true blueprinting. It's either in or it isnt, no in between. At least that's how I read true "blueprinting" an engine. Obviously this is an action we are talking about and somewhere, blueprinting terminology was picked up for cleaning up, trueing or balancing an action. Making sure the receiver face, threads, lugs, bolt lugs and bolt face are square to the centerline of the receiver. Swampthang, I'm no pro by a long shot either but I also agree with RWO.

 

[BarrelBrothers]

Every smith that blueprints does different things. If your shopping for a Smith to work with, ask them EXACTLY what they do to blueprint the action AND bolt. Squaring the face of the action and lapping the lugs is NOT blueprinting.

Im no PO Ackley but the reason for blueprinting, at least on a Rem 700, is the action and bolt are final cut THEN heat treated - since all metal warps during heat treat - the locking surface is no longer true to one another. That is why the idea of blueprinting came about. Lapping the lugs is ok but even the best lapper won't get 100% full contact on the locking surface. Lapping is better than a factory rifle but lapping lugs on an already barreled action WILL increase headspace.

Blueprinting or what should be called trueing the action/bolt is worthwhile - assuming the smith doesnt sleeze bag out on the job. The process starts by dialing in the action to less than .0001" run out. With a single point cutter the action tenon is opened up .010" and the old threads are cut away. The actions lugs are squared and trued using a single point cutter. New threads are cut into the action again single point and are now concentric to bore. Chasing threads with a tap will "clean up the threads" but the tap will follow the threads - which are no longer concentric after heat treat. So running a tap through the action to "blueprint" is a waste.

The bolt is dialed in again to .0001" and the lugs are squared and trued. Both the front and rear of the lugs. The bolt nose and face is also squared and trued - all being center to bore. Since the bolt is dialed in - you might as well bush the firing pin while your there as well... doesn't take much effort once your dialed in. If you do bush the firing pin the face of the bolt will need to be trued again.

Once the action AND bolt have been machined - we can now "blueprint" the barrel to the dimensions of the bolt ensuing a much tighter fit. The breech on a custom rifle should be .002"-.005". Since we are going to use a barrel blank the smith will cut the barrel to exact dimensions of the action and bolt - hence blueprinting.

Unfortunately there isn't an industry standard for the procedure to blueprint - hence I would ask the potential Smith exactly what they do when they blueprint.

If I install a barrel - I will true the action face and lap the lugs but that is FAR from blueprinting. I charge 350 for a barrel swap and 600 to fully blueprint your action/bolt and install the barrel.

Like I said - I'm not PO Ackley but I have built MANY rifles and when the action and bolt are correctly blueprinted and a quality barrel is installed the results are much better than a simple barrel swap.

That said - if your not spending time on the range behind the trigger and are not willing to practice or put the time in to improve your shooting skills... blueprinting might be a waste for that shooter.

Hope the above makes sense... feel free to send a note or call if you have more questions. I have plenty of pics to show the process.

Thanks,

John Bredderman
Barrel Brothers
415-705-9498