blown-out "once-fired" .308 brass

[ColWhitecakes]

So, being as components, and in particular anything military cartridge related, are scarce now days, I bought 100ct of once-fired Lake City brass from the local supplier. I was really just hoping to get at least twenty of them to be half way decent to go with another fifty I had to use as "starter" brass for my newly acquired NM M1Afor use in service rifle competition because of its usual toughness over other commercial brass in this normally ruff-on-brass rifle. It didn't really surprise me when every one of them were just way to blown-out to size through my full-length die. Sure enough, upon closer inspection, I could tell where most of them had the "shadow" from being held in linked belts. I chalked this up as a loss, and moved on.
So, I finally find some once-fired Remington on Midway, and bought the last 200 they had. It was sold as grade 2, which I dont really know what the perimeters are for grading it, and visually, it looked to all be really pretty stuff, considering. And, by this time I just purchased it for loading plinking ammo with FMJs, as I bit the bullet and bought some Lapua for competition in my M1A.I de-primed it, ran it through all my hydrosonic cleaning steps, and full-length resized it. They all were a little, and I do mean just a little, tighter going through the die than my brass is after firing, but not what I would have thought was over alarming as with the previously mentioned Lake City. I really just thought it might be normal for most brass fired in unknown rifles that may just have loser chambers than I am accustomed to.
So, I load up twenty five with some FMJs, and proceeded to shot some in my AR-10 that I just bought. Needless to say, they wouldn't even chamber. I was worried I had just bought a dud rifle, untill I tested one in my Savage and the bolt wouldn't even hardly close. I'm I wrong in thinking that R P headstamped brass wouldn't be military? It looks really good. Do they grade this stuff by web diameter or something? Because, as I said, it looks really good. Now I am definitely gonna invest in a case gauge, but, my main question is, does anyone make a "bulge-buster" die for rifle ammo like they do for pistol brass, or is this stuff just complete junk? It seems to only be out of spec at the very bottom where the die doesn't quite reach. At this point, I would like to just be able to load it up as reserve ammo, but for it to at least be reliable.

 

[madmixerman]

Did you try a small base 308 die? I had similar problems with some used 30br brass & another forum member suggested using a 45acp sizing die size the case at the base which worked for me . Don't know if it would work on a 308 but may be worth a try if you have one.

 

[kelbro]

I have always questioned where these guys got large volumes of fired brass. I picked up a bunch of 223 after a match once but it was an LEO shoot and they were using off-the-shelf AR15s.

Try an RCBS small base die. The one that everybody says that you don't need

 

[bigedp51]

Question: Have you ever reloaded factory loaded ammunition that chambered and functioned in your M1A?

The M240 machine gun has a larger diameter chamber than a M14 rifle, and the brass can expand in the base more than normal.

A over gassed M14 rifle will allow the bolt to move to the rear while pressure is still in the barrel. This allows the shoulder to move forward and the case will end up longer than the chamber. Depending on your dies and press this overly long type case can "spring back" after resizing and not chamber properly and this is where a case gauge comes in.

Without a case gauge and a set of vernier calipers you will not know which problem or if you have both problems with your cases.

Military brass is harder in the base to withstand the larger base diameter of military chambers. Commercial brass is not made to military standards and will expand more than normal in a military chamber.

You need to check base expansion in your fired cases and see if it is necessary to use a small base die in a rifle with a chamber already larger than SAAMI standard. Meaning in over 45 years of reloading I have never needed a small base die and they can over work your brass.

Find out first if the problem is base diameter or cartridge case headspace length before buying a small base die.

If you buy the Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge you will only need to buy "ONE" gauge for all your calibers. If you buy gauges for a specific caliber you will end up spending more for all your gauges.

 

[ColWhitecakes]

Did you try a small base 308 die? I had similar problems with some used 30br brass & another forum member suggested using a 45acp sizing die size the case at the base which worked for me . Don't know if it would work on a 308 but may be worth a try if you have one.

I have considered a small-base die, and looked around and found one I am gonna order. I'm wondering, do they size further done towards the rim? It is at the very bottom of the web, where there is a radius edge transitioning into the die on my Lee FL that seems to be the portion out of spec. With the .45 die; will the brass travel fully into it, as in, is the die long enough, or was this a bulge-buster type die?

 

[bigedp51]

I have always questioned where these guys got large volumes of fired brass. I picked up a bunch of 223 after a match once but it was an LEO shoot and they were using off-the-shelf AR15s.

Try an RCBS small base die. The one that everybody says that you don't need

I have three five gallon buckets of once fired .223/5.56 brass fired by our local SWAT teams and "DID NOT" need a small base die. Military chambers are already larger in base diameter and a small base die "can be" over kill. The deciding factor is the base diameter of the fired cases before and after resizing and who made the cases. (case hardness)

Mil-spec brass is harder in the base than commercial brass and the base may be thicker.

Below Lake City brass on the right and left and commercial Federal brass in the center. Using small base dies requires a combination of factors and the general advice to use them can be "OVER" prescribed.

Small base dies will fix the exaggerated problem below.

 

[ColWhitecakes]

[Question: Have you ever reloaded factory loaded ammunition that chambered and functioned in your M1A?]


No, I haven't fired any commercial ammo in my M1A. So far, I have only fired about 80rnds from someonce-fired LC brass, about thirty of which were the second loading by myself on this brass, and ten rounds of the Lapua. It all seemed to function well. However, having not done anything with the fired Lapuas yet, before I touch them, I am going to measure them compared to the unfired and see what I am dealing with. I just ordered a Redding small-base die, along with the RCBs precision mic and a Lyman case gauge. These are investments that I feel I have been needing for a while now, anyway.
The I have not tried the Remington brass I have in my M1A, and I don't plan to, now. I did, however, drop a few of the loaded rounds in my Savage Mod 10, and there was noticeable drag when lowering the bolt on it. Needless to say, I'm fixing to pull-down this ammo and set it aside till I get my new equipment in. Up untill now, My .308 experience has been limited to my bolt rifle. It seems I have a bit to learn with the autoloaders. However, I've never encountered this with any .223 once-fired in either my two bolt guns or AR.

 

[ColWhitecakes]

Don't know how that last reply of mine showed up in the quote box

 

[bigedp51]

On a gas operated rifle it is designed around a powder of a specific burning rate to have the proper gas port pressure. These rifle can end up under gassed or over gassed meaning low port pressure or high port pressure.

Severely high port pressure will bend the op rod and even rip the rim off the cases, drop down a little to less port pressure and because the bolt is being forced to move to the rear when the case is clinging to the chamber walls, the case body may stretch in length. At the bottom of the pressure ladder the bolt moves to the rear, the case has released its grip from the chamber walls but the pressure is still great enough to force the case shoulder forward.

In plain English you need to find out if your fired cases have a fat a$$ or if they are too tall and work from there.

You also need to know if you have a match grade chamber or a larger standard chamber.

 

[bigedp51]

Don't know how that last reply of mine showed up in the quote box

Its easy, all you do is type between the "quote" marks.

Don't know how that last reply of mine showed up in the quote box

Or decide to type outside the "quote" marks.

(If the problem keeps up your keyboard may have high port pressure)

 

[madmixerman]

PM sent.

 

[bigedp51]

Did you try a small base 308 die? I had similar problems with some used 30br brass & another forum member suggested using a 45acp sizing die size the case at the base which worked for me . Don't know if it would work on a 308 but may be worth a try if you have one.

madmixerman, I hope your PM tells the OP not to use a 45 ACP die on a .308, my carbide 45 ACP didn't go down far enough to size the base and my standard 45 ACP die pushes the shoulder back. In other words it doesn't work with Lee and RCBS dies.

 

[DRNewcomb]

A "pig" is really hard on brass. Unfortunately, in this day and age, most military 7.62 brass will have been fed through a MG. I'm glad I acquired an adequate supply of LC Match many years ago.

 

[madmixerman]

bigedp51 Like I said in my first reply ,I did this on 30br brass & wasn't sure if it would work on 308.