Black Gunk In Primer Pockets After Stainless Steel Tumbling

[AshesOfTheFall]

After watching some videos and reading a lot of forums, I bought the 6lb double-barrel tumbler from Harbor Freight, a few lbs of .047 diameter pins, some Dawn dish soap and some lemi-shine. I'm cleaning .357 magnum (and .38 special) brass. I'm using 1lb of pins, 1lb of water (enough to cover all the brass and pins), just a few drops of dawn, and a finger pinch of lemi-shine. I've tried varying loads of brass under 1lb (50-100 brass). I've tried varying lengths of time (1.5 to 9 hours) and no matter what combo I tried I'm still ending up with some black gunk left in many of the primer pockets and often some gray buildup around the extractor groove. Any suggestions on what I'm doing wrong? I think I saw a video or post somewhere suggesting that smooth walled drum tumblers don't get enough agitation for pin movement and that you want some edges (like a dryer drum or a cement mixer) or a hexagon shape like the big thumbler tumblers. Somewhere they mentioned modifying barrels by somehow attaching "fins" inside the barrel. I haven't been able to find this info again but I'm wondering if anyone has tried something similar and what they got for results. At this point I'm tempted to switching over to the harbor freight ultrasonic cleaner and see if that works better. 

I forgot to mention that when I clean 9mm and .40 S&W brass with the same setup, it turns out great. For some reason the .38 special and .357 magnum aren't coming as clean...

 

[jonbearman]

More than likely they are sliding more than tumbling in the cheap tumbler.Most quality tumblers are the shape like an octagon or something like that.I would suggest a diffferent tumbler would fix your problem.

 

[AshesOfTheFall]

Possibly, that's why I was wondering about the fin idea, but there are an awful lot of youtube videos and posts on the Harbor Freight site and assorted forums indicating that a lot of people use these small tumblers without the problem I'm having. I've seen a number of pictures and vids showing very clean primer pockets using the same size/type tumbler I have, some of them specifically with .357 magnum brass. The $200+ 15lb tumblers are out of my reach for now though.

 

[bigedp51]

Use more soap, the soap holds the dirt/carbon in suspension and prevents it from clinging to the brass.

Adding more LimiShine will make the brass cleaner and have more shine.

Your tumbler is almost half the capacity of the Thumler's Tumbler so you also need more pins, approximately 2 1/2 pounds.

Read the directions for the Thumler's Tumbler and gauge your weights and capacities from there.

Its a rock tumbler and not a cement mixer, you don't need fins or a octagon shape drum, you just need to move the cases and pins and let the soap and pins do their work.

 

[AshesOfTheFall]

To clarify, the 6lb capacity is achieved through 2 separate drums with 3lb capacity each. So each is 1/5th the capacity of the Thumbler's Tumbler and I've been cutting the quantities in the instructions in 1/5th so 1lb of pins per drum. I have tried using up to a teaspoon of Dawn.

Here's a link to the tumbler:
http://www.harborfreight.com/dual-drum-rotary-rock-tumbler-67632.html

Here's a link to the pins I bought (I got 3.3lbs total - 1lb for each drum and 1lb spare for replacments)
http://shop.bestbyte.net/1-lb-047x-255-in-stainless-steel-pellet-pins-tumbling-media.html

Here are links to videos I watched to figure out the process:
[youtube]http://youtu.be/_JHWJGtZqIY[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geAU6HLfi7w[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_oZ-dSX0Ko[/youtube]

 

[CatShooter]

Easy fins...

Take a tube of silicone sealer. Make 6 long beads (like long squirts of tooth paste) on the inside, from one end to the other, inside of the containers.

Let them dry for 36 hours - they will guarantee that the cases and pins are exchanging.

 

[AshesOfTheFall]

Thanks for all the input folks. I'm going to see about borrowing a pound of the smaller diameter .041 pins from a buddy with the official full Thumbler rig from Stainless Tumbling Media and I think I'll try the silicon fin idea in one drum with my existing media and see what kind of results I get with my next batches. I'll also make sure to keep the amount of dawn up to a tsp or so. The amount of black left behind is still less than when I scrape the pockets by hand with my Lee tool but my OCD must be kicking in because having any left after seeing all the "spotless" examples from people the same rigs gets under my skin. I know there's no actual impact to my loads as anything besides a basic pocket scrap isn't needed for pistol ammo, but dang it, I like to see those puppies shine clean when I'm inspecting them under the magnifying lens before reloading.

 

[amlevin]

Possibly, that's why I was wondering about the fin idea, but there are an awful lot of youtube videos and posts on the Harbor Freight site and assorted forums indicating that a lot of people use these small tumblers without the problem I'm having.

Unfortunately there still is no free lunch. If you are using an inexpensive "tool" you can pretty much guarantee that there's been something essential left out in order to make it inexpensive.

Yes, you will have to add something to cause the cases and pins to actually tumble rather than just slosh around in a puddle at the bottom of the "tub".

One method would be to purchase some plastic material and cut it into "slats" and then insert them into the tumble cylinder like barrel staves. Use enough so that you don't reduce the capacity drastically but not so many that they can't hold each other in place. You want them to fit tight against the bottom and also the lid when it's secured. There will be some voids behind the "slats/staves" but if you have everything nice and snug all that will get in there is some water. This will give you enough of an irregular surface to cause the media and brass to tumble. Basically you're going to turn the circle inside the drum into a hexagon or octagon. Should be able to work out the dimensions by just using a drawing of a circle that you've converted to one of he other shapes within the circle. If you can, glue the joining edges with the appropriate glue.

To cut the cost of your project go to your local Glass Shop and see if they have a scrap bin. I have one near my house and they give the scraps away. Found all kinds of useful scraps for projects, all for free.

 

[Erud]

I use 2 full tablespoons of Dawn with every load since starting stainless tumbling 3 years ago. Have never seen anything like you are describing, maybe try a load with that much soap and see what happens?

Good luck,
Erik

 

[Bayou]

I've been SS tumbling for over a year with absolutely spectacular results. No more vibes for me. I'm using a Thumler's Model B hi-speed.

I also use the .047" pins - not a single stuck pin ever. There was no change in tumbling time or results over the .041" pins except that there are no longer any stuck pins.

I quit using Dawn and switched to auto wash & wax (Armor-All) since the residual wax on the brass inhibits the return of tarnish. However, Dawn did clean very well. Armor-All cleans just as well as Dawn except that I use 1 ounce (4 tablespoons) of Armor-All since there is muh less detergent in the wash & wax over the Dawn.

In your case, I would add some pins, and slightly increase your detergent to compensate for the round drum. I would tumble for a minimum of 5 hours.

Let me know how you do.

I really like SS tumbling and the results it delivers.

Bayou

 

[nicholst55]

Is your .38 and .357 brass nickel-plated? Just wondering if that would have an effect. Seems like I read about some issues with nickel brass somewhere, but I can't remember the details.

 

[AshesOfTheFall]

I have both nickel-plated and plain brass. I see the residual black gunk in primer a large percentage of the batches of both types.

 

[Bayou]

Seems like I read about some issues with nickel brass somewhere, but I can't remember the details.

Nicolst55 -

Just FYI -

In my own experience, I've SS wet tumbled loads of nickel casings, and I've used the exact same recipe/procedure as with brass. The SS wet tumbling results with nickel are the same as with brass - spectacular!

Bayou