Bitten by the "Accuracy Bug"

[Nvreloader]

OK guys,
Please bear with me,
I know this is a Dumb question, :

Please don't let this post start a Wizzin match about caliber selection or case designs etc, etc.

The bbl was a like new Mann test bbl, 25 +" long, with a 1-9 twist.
Which is being turned down with a 5" long chamber shank, 1-1/2 diameter then tappers to 1" at the muzzle,
with an over all length of 20"?, haven't decided on total overall length at this time, which will be fitted to a trued M-70 action.
Scope will be a minimum of 15x, with target turrets and MOA cross hair design.

This is a RETIRED mans shootin iron with limited $$ available, and that is all that's available at this time!!!!!!

I want to know and or find out the best possible steps to uniform the brass for load testing etc,
from the LONG RANGE/BENCH REST accuracy shooters who know and have been down that road etc.

I want to have the best load accuracy possible out of this SP pistol as possible, (within reason and MY shooting capabilities).
Before I start the load/bullet testing phase of this quest.

It is a 280 AI case,
made for using 30/06 Win cases, with the PTG spec's changed to fit the shorten neck for the 30/06 case length, etc.
Bullets weights to be used will fall within the 140 to 180gr Hunting and Long Range weight ranges.

What I have done so far is, with this brass, while waiting for the Redding 280 AI die set and reamer to arrive, with zero throating,
as I have a 7mm throater to handle that end.

1. All brass was tumbled clean with SS pin method.
Weighed several hundred Win 30/06 once fired cases, from the same lot of brass,
to get a group/batch that weighed the same, (within 1 tenth grain of each other).

2. Have checked and uniformed the primer pockets and flash holes, using Wilson tools, on this brass.

3. I will H2o internal capacity check as close as possible, to get 25-50 cases that are the same, for a test batch/control group to start load/range testing.
If after checking some of these cases for spec's and seeing the results, I will do all the rest of the batch, if warranted.

What would be the next possible steps and selections?
Bullet weight/type selections, on the hunting end the Hornadays/Nosler PT have been proven by me thru use.

I am not sure about the Long Range/Target end brand names bullets??

As this quest will be on going in steps, until the final results are in etc.

Tia,
Don

 

[ebb]

It sounds like you are building a rifle but you call it an SP pistol, pretty sure I don't understand . But either case 7mm bullets with accuracy and hunting in the same sentence has to be a Burger hunting bullet. Go to the Burger site and read about their bullets and they will have a list of dealers.

 

[Nvreloader]

Ebb

If you care to browse a little, you can go here and see what I am talking about.
Quite interesting what is be shot and the accuracy, with these short bbl'ed SP pistols at ranges you don't think possible etc.

http://specialtypistols.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/frm/f/4246004005

A pistol is a hand held firearm, NOT supported via the shoulder, a rifle is a shoulder held firearm. ;D

Tia,
Don

 

[amlevin]

Ebb

If you care to browse a little, you can go here and see what I am talking about.
Quite interesting what is be shot and the accuracy, with these short bbl'ed SP pistols at ranges you don't think possible etc.

http://specialtypistols.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/frm/f/4246004005

A pistol is a hand held firearm, NOT supported via the shoulder, a rifle is a shoulder held firearm. ;D

Tia,
Don

These are starting to show up at my club range in greater numbers. I thought that muzzle brakes were bad These short barreled gizzies are loud and usually throw a flame at least a foot long often including a large fireball/explosion way ahead of the barrel.

Quick burning powders matched to the bullet weight are essential.

Yes, the accuracy can be amazing. One of our local shooters is getting "bugholes" at 200 yards with his newly built .221 Fireball (which was aptly named).

 

[Nvreloader]

Amlevin

Question, What is a gizzies??? ;D Is not any short bbl rifle Loud??

Yes,
It takes some work to match the powder to the shorter bbl lengths, some shooters think that just because xzy powder was listed in a manual for that caliber, then it should work for the shorter bbl's also, not the case most of the time, you just have to do better research to find the best powders, for 99% powder burn rate for the bbl length used etc.

My 17" bbl SP 284 drives a 140gr Nosler ParT at over 2800+ fps with the right powder choices, does a good job on Elk/Mule deer out to 300+yds, running RL-17 powder, and stays inside 3".

Now,
I have to figure out which of the better brands/weights of LR bullets will be the best for this 280 AI case/bbl length, this LR target/accuracy shooting from 500 to 1000+ yards, is a new road to this OLD man.

Which is the reason for my posts,
I see that when a pistol is mentioned that there is very little response to the questions asked,
even thou the same principles apply as for the rifles etc, I would think.

I am hoping that the newest RL 23/26 and Norma 217 powders will work better in this 280 AI SP pistol I am building etc.
Per QL, it shows great promise on what tests I have run so far etc.

Just starting to read the entire post on "Accuracy testing at 100 yds", most of the info is going over my head at this time.

This finding the NODE on the bullet/powder info is confusing to me at this time, I just don't see and understand the bullet impacts on the targets etc.

Tia,
Don

 

[bsekf]

I use RL 19 in my 7mmX444, 15 inch Encore. Don Bower, the Grand Daddy of long range pistol shooting, used slow powders. It helps keep the pressure down and that is important in break open guns. No so much in bolt pistols.

I believe the 307 case is about the perfect parent case for break open guns and always AI'd., straight case and 40` shoulder.

Long range pistol shooting has a long learning curve. You will learn that you have to do everything exactly the same shot to shot. I don't mean close.....exactly the same. When you can keep 5 in 1.5 inches at 200 yards you are starting to figure it out.

Bill

 

[joshb]

Run!!😀😃😃 Go to the doctor. Get a pill. Once bitten by this bug, you'll be hooked for life. I know. I'm there.

 

[CJ6]

OK guys,
Please bear with me,
I know this is a Dumb question, :


1. All brass was tumbled clean with SS pin method.
Weighed several hundred Win 30/06 once fired cases, from the same lot of brass,
to get a group/batch that weighed the same, (within 1 tenth grain of each other).

2. Have checked and uniformed the primer pockets and flash holes, using Wilson tools, on this brass. Get a set of "fitted" dies once you have a couple of fired brass.

3. I will H2o internal capacity check as close as possible, to get 25-50 cases that are the same, for a test batch/control group to start load/range testing.
If after checking some of these cases for spec's and seeing the results, I will do all the rest of the batch, if warranted.

What would be the next possible steps and selections?
Bullet weight/type selections, on the hunting end the Hornadays/Nosler PT have been proven by me thru use.

I am not sure about the Long Range/Target end brand names bullets??

As this quest will be on going in steps, until the final results are in etc.

Tia,
Don

Get the necks mic'd and cleaned up as needed, anneal the cases "AFTER" forming (sizing down).

 

[Nvreloader]

CJ6

Question,
would it not be wasted effort to mic'd and clean up the necks now, as they are in 30 cal at this time,
As the necks will change and thicken when sizing down to 7mm cal.

The only way I can size and form them is to fire form the brass using the 280 AI sizing die.

As soon as I get the reamer,
I had planned on making a fire form die, then size the 06 brass down,
and FF all the brass to the reamer chamber spec's etc.

Then check and ream/turn the necks of all the brass after FF etc.

Unless I am missing some thing along the way.

Tia,
Don

 

[CJ6]

You can clean the necks up with a skim cut(if needed) while still in 30-06 form. What you're looking for (measuring for) is necks with thick/thin sides so you can (if needed) turn your necks to a uniform thickness.

 

[bsekf]

I have experienced trouble resizing standard cases in an AI die, they crush. I would run them into a standard 7-08 or 280 die to resize the neck to 7mm and then fire form. That way you can leave a false shoulder, so the firing pin doesn't drive the case deeper in to the chamber.

There is no antidote for the terminal disease you have contacted!!!!!!!!!

Bill

 

[hogan]

I dunno... .280rem AI short barrel will wash-out a 14" barrel in no time; unless you're gonna shoot mild cast boolit loads.

I would consider something more kin to the TC Contender class ctg, like a 7mm BR if committed to using that 7mm pressure barrel. 7mm-08 has more potential, especially in a LA receiver.

"Accuracy" takes many shapes. Cast your own bullets, shoot them at mild velocity and you got some real pride in achieving a .5" five round group at 100yds or under .75" at 200 shooting cast boolits. Not a big deal to get those results from a rifle or benchrest setup handgun using jacketed stuff, but likely to take a bit of real work and extensive learning if shooting cast... 2100-2200fps won't ruin your barrel. 20gr of IMR4198 (NOT A Load, just a guess!) is sure to be easier on you, your range mates, and your gear than 50+gr of 4350 or 4831.

Might rethink the whole pistol setup. Can always go 16" with a rifle stock. Cut your LOP down to 12.5" or shorter, or maybe go bull-pup and you have more versatility. Single shot action like the TC or Ruger #1 has a lot of weight and oal savings to offer. Not many stocks out there for bolt action receiver handguns other than the Rem Nylon job of years past and maybe one or two others that escape me (Wichita??). Guess you can take a hacksaw to a wooden mod 70 stock and be in business, but I wouldn't bet on it being conducive to "accuracy". A 16" barrel with collapsible or side-swing buttstock seems more feasible. Not any out there for Mod 70 that I know of though. Several for Mod 700 actions and maybe Savage.

Maybe you're a visionary? Hope it all works out!

 

[Nvreloader]

Hogan

Go to my second post and check out the site listed, Please read some of the posts for the info contained.

IMHO,
I think you are not informed enough about rifle cartridges shot out of shorter bbls, :
Note: NO disrespect intended.

Tia,
Don