Bigger influence on accuracy?

[kyotekiller25]

To go from .3 MOA 5 shot groups to .7 10 shot groups seems like a lot. There's a lot of elevation in the 10 shot group and, to me, the top three and bottom one look like head position/pressure on the stock.

.3 MOA 3 shot groups, not 5 shots. That .7xx" was actually 12 shots. It also put 10 fireform shots into .7xx" also.

Very well could be my position/head/form. This is my first chassy and I'm still getting used to it. Not sure if I really care for it or not. I have A5s or A5 clones on all my other rifles, so it's a lot different for me for sure.

Could also just be the ELDMs. Hornadys aren't exactly match grade and I'm not sorting them any either. Just straight from the box. They are all still seated to within +/- .001" however

I wanted to shoot the 108s though for a few reasons. One being they're cheap, second being I have 1500 of them on the shelf, and third it's a dual purpose steel/coyote rifle and I believe ELDMs kill better than the other target bullets.

Very well could be the barrel is on its last leg also. I'm the 3rd owner of the rifle, and don't have an exact round count on it. Somewhere around 2K is my best guess from what ive been told. I'm saving up for a Krieger/Bartlein blank as we speak. Figured I'd put around 1K on it and then have it rebarreled.

 

[charlie b]

I had bad luck with the Hornady 108ELDM's in my 6BR (8 twist). 103ELDX's did ok. Then I found the 103VTAC's from Vapor Trail. A little more expensive but they did better. Berger 105VLD's were also good, but, a little more expensive yet. Berger makes a hunter version of the 105 if they suit your use.

If it is coyote's then the 103ELDX's would probably be more cost effective.

Yes, the bullet is the first thing to look at for an accurate load.

 

[JB10]

A few years ago i built a 6×45. I went with a 9 twist barrel planning on not using real heavy bullets. I tried 58gr vmax and 75gr vmax. This was a coyote rifle. Powder i had the most of was W748 and was a powder that should work. With the 58gr it shot well. With the 75gr it barly had 5 shots on the paper target at 100 yards. I figured just wrong bullet for the twist. I ended up loading a few rounds with N133 and the 75gr vmax. It shot very good groups. So im a believer that some bullets like some powders over others.

 

[jelenko]

saving up for a Krieger/Bartlein

I'd suggest you checkout Urbanrifleman's barrels - you could buy two of his for what a Bartlein/Krieger goes for,. They are Wilsons and will shoot in the 2's. The one I have just produced two 5 shot groups with two different loads under .2 at 100 yards.

 

[kyotekiller25]

I'd suggest you checkout Urbanrifleman's barrels - you could buy two of his for what a Bartlein/Krieger goes for,. They are Wilsons and will shoot in the 2's. The one I have just produced two 5 shot groups with two different loads under .2 at 100 yards.

Does he sell blanks? Haven't heard much about Wilson barrels.

 

[bozo699]

.3 MOA 3 shot groups, not 5 shots. That .7xx" was actually 12 shots. It also put 10 fireform shots into .7xx" also.

Very well could be my position/head/form. This is my first chassy and I'm still getting used to it. Not sure if I really care for it or not. I have A5s or A5 clones on all my other rifles, so it's a lot different for me for sure.

Could also just be the ELDMs. Hornadys aren't exactly match grade and I'm not sorting them any either. Just straight from the box. They are all still seated to within +/- .001" however

I wanted to shoot the 108s though for a few reasons. One being they're cheap, second being I have 1500 of them on the shelf, and third it's a dual purpose steel/coyote rifle and I believe ELDMs kill better than the other target bullets.

Very well could be the barrel is on its last leg also. I'm the 3rd owner of the rifle, and don't have an exact round count on it. Somewhere around 2K is my best guess from what ive been told. I'm saving up for a Krieger/Bartlein blank as we speak. Figured I'd put around 1K on it and then have it rebarreled.

You have a nice looking outfit but personally I don’t like most chassis rigs because of pressure points and bedding issues. I know lots of guys love them just not for me. That being said I’m a fan of Hornady bullets for plinking and hunting many different animals and in 22 and 6mm the vmax bullets have yielded some amazing groups but I never have seen anyone using them in long range br. I have had great success in my 6 crudmoor shooting coyotes with the 105 and 115 VLD’s . I have not owned a bra but I have owned and still do a multitude of 6br 6brx 6brdx and Dasher. My 6br and 6brx most accurate with Varget the 6brdx and Dasher preferred H4895 but of course other powders will work. Usually I find Berger vld’s like to be into or close to the lands, the Hornaday not so much, mine likes to jump. I hope you get it running like you want it too. Depending on how it was ran 2k rounds it could be shot but I think it should be accurate enough for a coyote gun for quite a while. I have 2 brx’s with well over 3k on them and they still shoot well.
Wayne

 

[bozo699]

Does he sell blanks? Haven't heard much about Wilson barrels.

He a super easy guy to talk too, he’s a site member. Give him a call he’ll fix ya up
Wayne

 

[searcher]

A good powder makes a good bullet shoot better. End of debate. Ha

 

[jelenko]

Does he sell blanks? Haven't heard much about Wilson barrels.

He's in the business to sell finished barrels. He starts with Wilson blanks.
As bozo mentioned, he'll fix you up.

 

[RegionRat]

Don't listen to me cause I can spend your money faster than you can make it.... that said.

If you care about the performance of this sort of shooting, then it is time you cut your losses on unknown worn out used barrels and grab a fresh one like the guys are telling you.

Your time and the cost of the ammo you are burning is worth the price of starting with a good quality barrel. YMMV

 

[1shot]

To quote the late, great George Kelbly Sr. "There are only three things that really matter in an accurate rifle, the three B's."
Bullets
Barrels
Brass

 

[Fuj]

To quote the late, great George Kelbly Sr. "There are only three things that really matter in an accurate rifle, the three B's."
Bullets
Barrels
Brass

And the barrel always comes first.......

 

[Steve Donlon]

For sure it's the bullet. The powder can give you the edge if everything else is good. IMO.

 

[NF1E]

Bullet.

 

[GetReal]

In settling other eternal conundrums, I'm here to report that In fact , it was the chicken that came first.

 

[GetReal]

The best powder can't make a bad bullet Shoot good.

The wrong powder can make a good bullet Shoot bad.

 

[CF Junkie]

kyotekiller25,

Your targets look like mine when I was learning a new rifle and caliber.
Turned out that the one or two shots off the POI were due to me being out of position on the set up or getting too anxious on the trigger. Sometimes I also got too loose with the stock seated in my shoulder crease. As you probably notice, it can get worse with 5-round groups.

Not all the variations you get are due to powder or bullets, although most shooters never realize or even admit that our 'shooter induced variations' are the major cause for our groups growing larger than we desire.

Even after years of shooting and getting my accuracy probably to the limit I will ever reach, I still have a lapse and let one shot get away in my groups, at least a few times during a session at the range. I just can't always keep my concentration and, at times, get over confident when I am on a roll and don't complete my set up process.

I would recommend that you experiment to find what works best for you in achieving a consistent set up.
And, as you are doing already, keep trying to find what bullets and powder your rifle likes.
I generally try multiple bullet weights and then bullet manufacturers and at least 5 powders until I found the combination that each of my rifles preferred.
It takes some effort, but, for me, it did make a difference in accuracy achieved.

 

[Nevned]

Was just thinking this morning what has the bigger influence on accuracy in a given rifle, the powder or bullet? Can you make it shoot with what you want by changing 1 or the other? Or do you have to try 5 different powders and 5 different bullets to see what your rifle shoots best? Which got me thinking to the original point of which had the bigger influence, powder or bullet?

Bullet. I concur with the comments about replacing a worn out barrel. Components are expensive but chasing you tail trying to get a long in the tooth barrel to shoot is at times a bit frustrating....ask me how I know. When the correct bullet, powder and charge, primer etc is found it is very rewarding. JMO

 

[Doom]

kyotekiller25,

Your targets look like mine when I was learning a new rifle and caliber.
Turned out that the one or two shots off the POI were due to me being out of position on the set up or getting too anxious on the trigger. Sometimes I also got too loose with the stock seated in my shoulder crease. As you probably notice, it can get worse with 5-round groups.

Not all the variations you get are due to powder or bullets, although most shooters never realize or even admit that our 'shooter induced variations' are the major cause for our groups growing larger than we desire.

Even after years of shooting and getting my accuracy probably to the limit I will ever reach, I still have a lapse and let one shot get away in my groups, at least a few times during a session at the range. I just can't always keep my concentration and, at times, get over confident when I am on a roll and don't complete my set up process.

I would recommend that you experiment to find what works best for you in achieving a consistent set up.
And, as you are doing already, keep trying to find what bullets and powder your rifle likes.
I generally try multiple bullet weights and then bullet manufacturers and at least 5 powders until I found the combination that each of my rifles preferred.
It takes some effort, but, for me, it did make a difference in accuracy achieved.

I will echo your description of the issues of related to hold and setup. It's something I fight with. One of the things I have noticed is that most often those five shot groups turn into two three and two groups or that fifth those is thrown. I am old and can't shoot prone and shooting off the bench is a contributor to the issue.

Kieth Glasscock posted a video a few months back on load development and the fundamentals of driving the rifle for load development. I think it's worth passing on since we branched out from bullets and powder!