I've been considering building an XLR rifle for next summer. All my current rifles/bolts/stocks/magazines/etc are short action, so I'm wondering if I can get away with another short action build and still make reasonably accurate hits at a mile. I was thinking 7mm WSM or 284 Shehane with the Berger 180 Hybrid ... suggestions?
Best short action cartridge for targets at 1 mile?
- Thread starter kevwil
- Start date
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
IMO no. It will get there but not well. What are your goals? I strongly suggest a .338.
No goals other than what's stated. It's just a thought exercise at this point - can a high enough BC bullet be pushed fast enough from any possible short action cartridge that it's still stable & accurate at 1 mile. It seems the high BC 6.5mm and 7mm Berger Hybrids would be supersonic to 1900 or so, if pushed fast enough. 260AI, 284 Shehane, or even 7mm WSM seem to just have enough speed ...
Yes, long magnums pushing higher BC big bore bullets will do it better, but this is about what is possible with a short action.
Yes, long magnums pushing higher BC big bore bullets will do it better, but this is about what is possible with a short action.
Best short case for a mile ? Mine ;D case length 2.360 necked down to 30 cal.the oal is 3.50 with a berger 230g,which I'm soon gonna try.By the way I'm starting to fool with the big cases again.Is re 33 slower than retumbo?
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
I would single feed a longer round.
the 7mm 180 Berger will need about 3200 fps
the 6.5mm 140 Berger will need about 3300 fps
the .308 215 Berger will need about 3100 fps
the 6.5mm 140 Berger will need about 3300 fps
the .308 215 Berger will need about 3100 fps
Erik Cortina
Team Lapua Brux Borden Captain
230 hybrids at 2,800 fps. will get you there.
A .300 WSM should do it with IMR7828SSC
A .300 WSM should do it with IMR7828SSC
You might look at some specialty bullets for this.
AL makes some very different bullets for long range work. They are pricey but for what you are trying to accomplish they might work. I tested some of his .308 cal in 175gr using re15 and had no issues with them. He is located in Phoenix. WWW.alcobullets.com pdog2225
AL makes some very different bullets for long range work. They are pricey but for what you are trying to accomplish they might work. I tested some of his .308 cal in 175gr using re15 and had no issues with them. He is located in Phoenix. WWW.alcobullets.com pdog2225
Erik Cortina
Team Lapua Brux Borden Captain
Joe Salt said:
No testing with OTM or Hybrids for that matter, but Steve Blair was shooting the 230's at 2,950 fps. from a 34" barrel and IMR 7828SSC. I was driving 215's at 3,050 fps. from a 32" barrel using IMR 7828 SSC
rickiesrevenge
Silver $$ Contributor
mr.big said:
What altitude did you use for these calculations? I've shot the 180 hybrid MUCH slower than that and got much further out with it. This steel target was shot at 2018 yards with a 180 hybrid that started at 2825fps. altitude 4400'.
As to the OP, I'd run a 300 WSM with 230's. It'll be a singleshot in a short action with the bullet seated where it should be.
.....Sorry `bout that.....Erick I was pushing the 230 OTM's at just over 3000 fps with my L.G. at 1000 yards and done very well. Can't wait till spring to do more testing with my H.G. with a new 36" barrel. That bullet and powder have potential. I would never thought you could get that kind of speed out of the WSM.
Joe Salt
Joe Salt
Ha! advice from guys who have never tried one mile... got to love it.
Kevwil:
You will be surprised that a lot of the bullets out there will do just fine even below the Mach1 level that it will drop below before it hits at 1 mile. So those that have said you cant get there with the smaller bullets and calibres most likely have not tried it.
Like you quest, for shits and giggles wanted to try and hit a 24"X30" tall plate at over a mile. I got real close with my 6.5X284 and most likely would have if I wanted to change out my base and 1" scope I was using on that rifle at the time. So went for the 7 Rem mag that I had. 162gr A-Max at 2970 made it real easy and was pretty darn accurate to boot. I made 3 hits out of 9 on my first outing after working past 1400, 1500 and 1600 getting to 1674yards. Not to bad I thought and 4 more just missed the plate by a little bit left and right as the breeze played ping pong with my bullet, but held real good elevation the whole time.
So with that being said: a short action with the 7mm RSAUM and some 180's...That would be my non 338 choice. Hard to believe I thought, that it could be done..but there I was. Banging steel at a mile. My hit ratio went up the second outing as the weather was a lot nicer and I had installed a 30MOA base.
You can do it man. Its not all smoke and mirrors and you don't need a 338 Lapua to do it either.
Best of luck to you sir. Half the fun is getting all set up and getting there.
RussT
Kevwil:
You will be surprised that a lot of the bullets out there will do just fine even below the Mach1 level that it will drop below before it hits at 1 mile. So those that have said you cant get there with the smaller bullets and calibres most likely have not tried it.
Like you quest, for shits and giggles wanted to try and hit a 24"X30" tall plate at over a mile. I got real close with my 6.5X284 and most likely would have if I wanted to change out my base and 1" scope I was using on that rifle at the time. So went for the 7 Rem mag that I had. 162gr A-Max at 2970 made it real easy and was pretty darn accurate to boot. I made 3 hits out of 9 on my first outing after working past 1400, 1500 and 1600 getting to 1674yards. Not to bad I thought and 4 more just missed the plate by a little bit left and right as the breeze played ping pong with my bullet, but held real good elevation the whole time.
So with that being said: a short action with the 7mm RSAUM and some 180's...That would be my non 338 choice. Hard to believe I thought, that it could be done..but there I was. Banging steel at a mile. My hit ratio went up the second outing as the weather was a lot nicer and I had installed a 30MOA base.
You can do it man. Its not all smoke and mirrors and you don't need a 338 Lapua to do it either.
Best of luck to you sir. Half the fun is getting all set up and getting there.
RussT
kevwil said:
that is just to make it all the way supersonic at sea level ,,where we shoot here is at 600 ft,
All my 7 saums have made the journey to a mile and beyond, to 2075, 2 actions, 5 barrels. Would I call the saum a mile gun, no, IMO, a rifle that you could expect a 70% cold bore hit ratio. But the op asked for a reasonably accurate round to do this.
If you set your target, say 1 1/2 moa size on a hillside, or a berm and can spot impacts, a 7saum or 7wsm will more than fill his bill. Now hang the same plate in 2ft tall prairie grass, your chances drop significantly.
I've seen a 6.5 creed beat up an IPSC at a mile, calmer day.
You get to 2K, one would think a full value wind would be your worst enemy, it's not. A tail wind, or head wind messes your vertical up more than any ballistics calculator will show you. Sending a bullet that high in the air, coupled with bullet going through transonic about the same time, things happen. This is at 4700ft elevation, not everyone has that luxury.
If Berger ever releases that 195gr hybrid, personally I think it's bc will surpass the 30cal 215's. Making the 7's even a better choice.
If you set your target, say 1 1/2 moa size on a hillside, or a berm and can spot impacts, a 7saum or 7wsm will more than fill his bill. Now hang the same plate in 2ft tall prairie grass, your chances drop significantly.
I've seen a 6.5 creed beat up an IPSC at a mile, calmer day.
You get to 2K, one would think a full value wind would be your worst enemy, it's not. A tail wind, or head wind messes your vertical up more than any ballistics calculator will show you. Sending a bullet that high in the air, coupled with bullet going through transonic about the same time, things happen. This is at 4700ft elevation, not everyone has that luxury.
If Berger ever releases that 195gr hybrid, personally I think it's bc will surpass the 30cal 215's. Making the 7's even a better choice.
Howsa 6.5saum or WSM using reliable 142gr smk?
Might look at the short-bodied Lazerroni round necked down to 6.5, or up to .338; it will "work"... Thin air is an Enabler. Maybe you ought move to Santa Fe or Cloudcroft, 7500' and 10k feet elevation may allow a .223AI with 90gr vld to rule the roost...
Howsa 6.5 Rem mag, maybe a .243AI or 6/284? Gonna count on that altitude to get you there, why not count on mild wind?
Real ticket though could be a .338/284, and there's that Lazerroni case again, The Patriot; smaller than the Warbird... Short-action super Magnum .590" boltface... Getting into realistic realm with .750-.8 ballistic coefficient performers. There is your wind cheating and good velocity. If the Dakota case were not an odd-ball with .545 head dimension, it would be excellent; or an inbetween .338rum and SAUM oal case length. Like a Patriot with .533 head.
Always something to shoot for, pun intended...
Might look at the short-bodied Lazerroni round necked down to 6.5, or up to .338; it will "work"... Thin air is an Enabler. Maybe you ought move to Santa Fe or Cloudcroft, 7500' and 10k feet elevation may allow a .223AI with 90gr vld to rule the roost...
Howsa 6.5 Rem mag, maybe a .243AI or 6/284? Gonna count on that altitude to get you there, why not count on mild wind?
Real ticket though could be a .338/284, and there's that Lazerroni case again, The Patriot; smaller than the Warbird... Short-action super Magnum .590" boltface... Getting into realistic realm with .750-.8 ballistic coefficient performers. There is your wind cheating and good velocity. If the Dakota case were not an odd-ball with .545 head dimension, it would be excellent; or an inbetween .338rum and SAUM oal case length. Like a Patriot with .533 head.
Always something to shoot for, pun intended...
I will tell you a straight 284 win will make it consistently to a mile as we completed Longest Shot competition this Fall and Kevin was shooting one and made the mile in all 3 matchs the last match he was able to slide one in at 2k yards I witnessed it at 600 ft above sea level and cool 40 deg temps It was said in the pits he was supersonic at the mile mark I would imagine not by much though He's using a 32 in barrel http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3855792.msg36470044#msg36470044
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