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Berger VS Sierra

Sniper338

This is more of a personal opinion/comment/food for thought, but I'd like to see if more of you agree, disagree, or what the general consensus is...


With the introduction and releases from Sierra regarding their factory pointed bullets, do you think Berger should step it up, is berger falling behind in the meplat aspect?
We all know for factory produced bullets Berger's shoot great, as do Sierras. We all know, we've all seen first hand, and we've all read the comments and questions over the years about berger Meplats, they are never the same, never consistant, always un-even... On the other hand with the introduction of Sierras pointing process on some of their bullets, they now have some VERY clean, Sleek, VERY well uniformed looking bullets rolling out...

Just curious, as I think Berger IS getting one up-ed. They still shoot good as is outta the box, but...

Could Berger add a pointing process to their bullet manufacturing process?

Would factory pointed Bergers raise Berger quality? (I sure think so, IMO)


Just my thoughts when reading recent bullet articles... I shoot mainly Bergers now anyways, either way, just food for thought.
 
My thoughts on all bullets! If you get new ones on the first run on the new dies, you usually end up with great bullet. So I feel how many bullet should be run before changing dies?
Just talked to some guys at the range this weekend that said they just got some new bullets, not saying which, but that they were not as good as the previous batch. I myself bought some early lot# of Bergers that was close to the ones my wife was shooting in 2009 and I just shot a 100 with them yesterday.
My two cents.

Joe Salt
 
In my little corner of the world Berger's shoot better then Sierra's in my rifles. I started loading in 1972. Of course it was with Sierra's. Can't hardly complain how good they've been for me.
 
If you believe the points on bullets pointed at the factory are equal in consistency to what you can do yourself with a pointing die and proper sorting/attention, then I would assume you'd rather buy them already pointed. I don't happen to believe that the factory is likely to do a better job of sorting and pointing than I can, so I'd rather point them myself. For that reason, I hope Berger does not start pointing bullets at the factory. Unless they're going to do it to the same level of consistency that I can do at home, it would remove one level of quality control that I currently am in control of. Compared to some of the other things we do for precision reloading, pointing bullets is not nearly the most time-consuming or painful step in the process.
 
Berger asked the question years ago as to weather they should tip. My response at the time was not if it increased the cost of the product. Tipping is a process that the loader can do and the vast majority of shooters would no benefit.

Since then the 107 SMK started coming out tipped and my X-counts did show a noticeable increase.

I guess Berger 1. Would have to test to see if it made enough difference to validate the cost 2. Can their production lines keep up with demand now?

108's are already $0.06 higher than the 107.
 
If anyone is falling behind these days I think it is Sierra. When I first started shooting seriously and getting into reloading I was a Sierra man through and through. I still use a lot of Sierras today but Berger has moved to my first choice for a long range hunting or target bullet. Now with the introduction of the new Hornadys and Noslers with their much higher BCs I fear Sierra may be left in the dust as far as a high BC bullet built specifically for the long range crowd. Granted they are still making great bullets like the 6mm 107 and the 7mm 183 with the TMKs also being a marked improvement but there is not a lot of them to choose from. It seems other companies are diving in whole heartedly and producing lots of new bullets in all calibers and Sierra is standing on the edge of the pool dipping their toes in the water. As an example, Hornady has three new heavy for caliber bullets in 6.5; the 140, 143 and 147, all of which have much higher ballistic coefficients than the 142 Match King which is a fantastic bullet. But when you are trying to maximize your potential why would you pick a bullet with a BC of .588 when you have options of up to .665. In the time that Hornady and Nosler have released multiple bullets in 6.5 Sierra has managed a 130TMK that is unremarkable at best when compared to other manufacturers of the same weight class. I think it's high time Sierra realized that they need to start offering bullets with aggressive secant ogives for reduced drag and get in the game. I feel like they hold onto the tangent ogive like a safety blanket and they need to realize that if a shooter wants a tangent ogive bullet that is easy to tune they have a very large catalog to choose from. I for one would love to see more bullet offerings from Sierra. A 142 TMK with a secant ogive and a BC into the .6's would tickle me plum to death.
 
STOMP442 said:
If anyone is falling behind these days I think it is Sierra. When I first started shooting seriously and getting into reloading I was a Sierra man through and through. I still use a lot of Sierras today but Berger has moved to my first choice for a long range hunting or target bullet. Now with the introduction of the new Hornadys and Noslers with their much higher BCs I fear Sierra may be left in the dust as far as a high BC bullet built specifically for the long range crowd. Granted they are still making great bullets like the 6mm 107 and the 7mm 183 with the TMKs also being a marked improvement but there is not a lot of them to choose from. It seems other companies are diving in whole heartedly and producing lots of new bullets in all calibers and Sierra is standing on the edge of the pool dipping their toes in the water. As an example, Hornady has three new heavy for caliber bullets in 6.5; the 140, 143 and 147, all of which have much higher ballistic coefficients than the 142 Match King which is a fantastic bullet. But when you are trying to maximize your potential why would you pick a bullet with a BC of .588 when you have options of up to .665. In the time that Hornady and Nosler have released multiple bullets in 6.5 Sierra has managed a 130TMK that is unremarkable at best when compared to other manufacturers of the same weight class. I think it's high time Sierra realized that they need to start offering bullets with aggressive secant ogives for reduced drag and get in the game. I feel like they hold onto the tangent ogive like a safety blanket and they need to realize that if a shooter wants a tangent ogive bullet that is easy to tune they have a very large catalog to choose from. I for one would love to see more bullet offerings from Sierra. A 142 TMK with a secant ogive and a BC into the .6's would tickle me plum to death.
Click to expand...
Why is BC so important to you? Is it really that hard to twist a few more clicks into your scope?
 
JRS said:
Why is BC so important to you? Is it really that hard to twist a few more clicks into your scope?
Click to expand...

No, it's not but perhaps not everyone is able to read the wind as well as you can and a slight miscalculation of the wind or a slight change in wind could mean the difference between a ten or a 9 or a hit and a miss depending on what you are shooting at. If both bullets shoot equally as well why choose the inferior of the two? It's like driving a Ford pinto or a Mustang. Both will get you there but what one would you rather drive?
 
I like them both , for the job performance at given distance.
I shoot Palma and 1000 Matches and some MidRange.
My 1000 yard Rifle loves Berger 6.5 140 HB ...
My Palma Rifles the 2156 Seirra's , they also like Berger 155.5 and HB .
At Mid Range Nosler 155 are hard to give up.
 
If Berger offered pointed on the side(to begin), it would be nice.
Maybe they could drop the redundant in their lineup to keep production going at a higher rate.
I'd buy em
 
I think if someone like Bryan litz won with Hornaday bullets tomorrow everyone would be buying them. Imo i shoot whatever shoots the best out of my guns. I like both sierra and berger but would agree with bergers seem picky on seating depth
 
I guess Im on the edge of asking with this post if pointing berger bullets with a whidden pointing die adds a benefit to their accuracy at all... if its worth the time..
 
Sniper338 said:
I guess Im on the edge of asking with this post if pointing berger bullets with a whidden pointing die adds a benefit to their accuracy at all... if its worth the time..
Click to expand...
With certain bullets it doesn't help as much. It seems to give less wind drift. You have to be careful because it can cause vertical dispersion. Not a great amount but in 1000 YARD benchrest it doesn't take much. I have shot them with colors on the bullets head to head on the same target, both round robin and 5 and 5. The pointed always shot more vertical. In 2010 I shot 5 matches with pointed bullets and 5 without, in both light and heavy. AT the end of the year the 10 targets not pointed were smaller then the 10 targets pointed. They averaged an inch smaller but they were about one point higher. When you looked at the targets, it was pretty obvious by the shape of the groups.

I told another guy that was pointing what I saw. This year he stopped pointing and shooting way better groups. He is on a record pace with the same two guns he shot last year. This year the wind is the worst I ever saw it, worse then 2005. So conditions isn't the cause. Matt
 
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