berger 185 or 200 hybrids

[Trevor60]

HI

I have been looking at these 2 bullets and would like to hear your results. I have had two differnt camps form either the guys could get the 185's to shoot and not the 200's or vis versa the 200's would shoot and not the 185's.

My other question is powder for each 185 and or 200's has anyone tried powders other then varget would you mind provding particulars... speed, accuracy, (recoil) thanks busdriver)) barrel length and whether or not your chamber is set up for one of these bullets?

Much appreciated
Trevor

 

[Keith Glasscock]

I've run the 200's for a year now. I have a chamber spec'd for that bullet.

With a 30" 10 twist and Varget, I can get 2650+ and .3's from the bipod @ 300 yards.

I've also tried H4895. I get a little more velocity, and good accuracy, but it doesn't work well with my shooting style.

Lastly, I've given RE-17 a try. There is a lot more velocity there, but the powder is too touchy for my liking.

Recoil is nothing less than significant. Many F/TR shooters just plain can't shoot the heavy bullets consistently over a long match. I see myself degrading after 40-60 shots in one day.

 

[DennisH]

Trevor, in my 308, it's 185 Hybirds all the way. Varget is all I use.

 

[Trevor60]

Thanks for each of your imputs so far and Busdriver thanks for pointing out Recoil that should have been one of the criteria list.


The 185 bullets i shoot now have recoil at the speeds i am running them 2800+ and a check on Jbm tells me the 200 would have another lb of recoil energy.

i have also discovered that the torque is more with the 200 in longer barrels.

The reason that i am pursing the 200 is at Perry this year the top competitors were running 200's with the exception of the chou brothers and laure perry who were running the 185 LRBTs

the problem i am coming across is accuracy which may be a partly do to recoil but some people swear by the 200 and some swear at. I was hoping to get a large enough sample of people one way or the other on what to choice. So far it is split of the two people I have high regard for one likes the 185 the other likes the 200's...

bottom line is point managment the points i would gain with the 200's higher BC i don't want to give right back because of vertical or recoil.

Trevor

 

[Albany Mountain]

Not to modify the thread but where would the Sierra Matchking 190's (308 Win) fit in with this???

 

[Trevor60]

Hi Albany

They wouldn't The 190 sierra are very accurate but they lack BC.

185 hybrid G7 .291
200 hybrid G7 .320

190 Sierra G7 .270

Thanks
Trevor

 

[6BRinNZ]

I've run the 200's for a year now. I have a chamber spec'd for that bullet.

With a 30" 10 twist and Varget, I can get 2650+ and .3's from the bipod @ 300 yards.

I've also tried H4895. I get a little more velocity, and good accuracy, but it doesn't work well with my shooting style.

Lastly, I've given RE-17 a try. There is a lot more velocity there, but the powder is too touchy for my liking.

Recoil is nothing less than significant. Many F/TR shooters just plain can't shoot the heavy bullets consistently over a long match. I see myself degrading after 40-60 shots in one day.

Busdriver - what do you mean...just curious...

TIA

 

[Keith Glasscock]

I get barrels quite warm when shooting F/TR at long range. For some reason, H4895 tends to get the barrel hotter than Varget does. I actually have to stop shooting during a string to prevent overheating of the barrel.

How hot you ask? Well, I get it so hot that I can't hang on to it after a string. Better yet, I get it as hot as you possibly could by firing 22 shots in less than 5 minutes. That is, if I'm getting some of that spectacular pit service we get around here on occasion. In my last match, I actually fired while the target was coming up (just once). That certainly gets the puller's attention!

I do save that technique for when the winds are choppy and the impact point doesn't make any sense (compared to the available wind indicators). I never score well (above 97%), but usually score well enough to place in the top few spots.

When the weather is maintaining a more predictable pattern, I use a different technique. I will fire 3-5 shots pretty rapidly, then wait for the condition to come back before firing another 3-5 shots. I never seem to run out of time because I am impatient enough that I'll shoot in the secondary condition if I don't see my preferred condition reappear on schedule.

 

[claymore]

The 200g did not work in my 11 twist. Should work with a 10 twist though. The 185g worked great.

 

[Heavies]

Will 185 hybrid work in a 12T?

 

[DennisH]

I have shot 190 VLD's in my 12 twist, they were very accurate.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Will 185 hybrid work in a 12T?

No, not under sea level conditions (especially on a cold day). An 11 twist would be better.

On that subject, I had great success with an 11 twist barrel and 200 hybrids. I was launching them from a 26" barrel at 2600 fps. Accuracy (at sea level) was actually slightly better than my 10 twist barrel. Comparing two barrels to each other is apples to oranges.

I would not hesitate to run the 200's through an actual 11 twist barrel. I'll be the first to tell you that barrels can end up not being what they are supposed to be.

 

[Heavies]

Will 185 hybrid work in a 12T?

No, not under sea level conditions (especially on a cold day). An 11 twist would be better.

On that subject, I had great success with an 11 twist barrel and 200 hybrids. I was launching them from a 26" barrel at 2600 fps. Accuracy (at sea level) was actually slightly better than my 10 twist barrel. Comparing two barrels to each other is apples to oranges.

I would not hesitate to run the 200's through an actual 11 twist barrel. I'll be the first to tell you that barrels can end up not being what they are supposed to be.

It never gets real cold here where I'm at. Do you think that even though marginal the 185 hybrid might work for me, like the 200 in the 11T worked for you? Or is that guy just too long? Lol. I may have to get a box and try them out.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

The only way to really know is to try it. That said, the Miller computational model shows that:

The 200 in an 11 twist (60F and sea level @2600) would be 1.30 (if you believe Berger's sales sheet) or 1.35 (if you believe my calipers). As it warms up to 70F and above, the stability reaches 1.4 quickly.

With the 185 hybrid (I only have shot the original batch from the beta test - they match the sales sheet) the 11 twist gives a 1.40 at 2750 and the 12 twist gives a 1.18. If it gets cold, 40F the stability drops to 1.13

While I am not an advocate of the "1.4 rule" I have read Litz's research into stability vs BC. If you get to the point where the stability is low enough (<1.2 or so) the yawing and pitching of the bullet will increase drag and decrease performance.

I've never shot anything that calculated beow 1.25 at long range, guess I'm just not that good at going outside the box.

 

[4xforfun]

I have a 1-12 twist 300 WSM I had set up for the 187 BIB. Didn't have much luck with the BIBs. I quickly found a load using the 200 HB for the MN IBS 1K state match. This was to be my backup light gun. I gave it a try in the first HG shootoff....figured WTH, I am not chasing IBS SOY points....nothing to loose...5.2 inch ten shot group. The next day I shot a 3.6 LG....Backed it up with a 5 flat. Pushing them about 2900 flat in the WSM.

 

[Laurie]

I have a 1-12 twist 300 WSM I had set up for the 187 BIB. Didn't have much luck with the BIBs. I quickly found a load using the 200 HB for the MN IBS 1K state match. This was to be my backup light gun. I gave it a try in the first HG shootoff....figured WTH, I am not chasing IBS SOY points....nothing to loose...5.2 inch ten shot group. The next day I shot a 3.6 LG....Backed it up with a 5 flat. Pushing them about 2900 flat in the WSM.

What was the temperature on the day of the competition, and the range's approximate altitude ? They have more effect on stability than muzzle velocity.

 

[4xforfun]

I have a 1-12 twist 300 WSM I had set up for the 187 BIB. Didn't have much luck with the BIBs. I quickly found a load using the 200 HB for the MN IBS 1K state match. This was to be my backup light gun. I gave it a try in the first HG shootoff....figured WTH, I am not chasing IBS SOY points....nothing to loose...5.2 inch ten shot group. The next day I shot a 3.6 LG....Backed it up with a 5 flat. Pushing them about 2900 flat in the WSM.

What was the temperature on the day of the competition, and the range's approximate altitude ? They have more effect on stability than muzzle velocity.

Can't remember...I think that it was around 75 for the 5.xxx ten shot group. About 65 for the 3.6 inch LG group and over 80 for the final 5 inch LG group.

Elavation is around 950 ft.

 

[Laurie]

Yes, running the 1.5" length 200 gn Hybrid through the Miller formula gives Sg values around 1.2 assuming your near 1,000 ft ASL range elevation dropped atmospheric pressure to around the 29 inches mercury level.

I know the advice is to have ~1.4 as a minimum, but I always feel that's to cover all year round conditions and the-worst-possible-combination-on-the-day circumstances. I've used a lot of 1.15-1.25 combinations at long ranges with good results.

Thanks for that advice - always good to hear that something actually works!