Berger 185-gr Match Juggernaut, VLD, or Hybrid?

[Alexander-M]

The components for my new F-T/R rifle will be arriving next week, and I need to start reloading for it.

I addition to the 600-yard matches I normally shoot, I would like to shoot in 1000-yard matches. For my current rifle, a Savage 12 F-T/R (1-12 twist), I had settled on 168-gr SMK with 45-gr Varget, Lapua brass, and these worked fine, but I noticed more variation in the bullet dimensions than I care for, so I am going to try Bergers.

I would like to start with Berger 185-gr bullets, but I am not sure of which, i.e., match Juggernaut, VLD, or Hybrids. After reading the descriptions, it would appear that the Hybrids offer the best characteristics, but I would like your opinions.

The new rifle will be:
• Action – Kelbly F-Class Panda
• Stock – GRS Kelbly X-Eater (blue)
• Barrel – Krieger 308 5R 1-11 Palma #14 Heavy SS barrel
• Trigger – Jewel
• Scope – I will use the Nightforce NXS 12-42x56 .125 MOA NP-R2 I have on my Savage 12 F-T/R

Thank you for your time and help!

Nando

 

[Scott Harris]

For 1K, I'd recommend the 185 LRBT, they don't call it the Juggernaut for nothing! I see lots of juggernauts in use at big matches, don't know of anyone using the VLDs or 185 Hybrid.

 

[savageshooter86]

Either the LRBT or Hybrids will shoot well beyond your expectations. I shot LRBT last season and did well. Now I'm trying the hybrids and will shoot them in first match tom. At 500 yards it showing great promise

Both are easy to tune. I believe my hybrids are shooting better than the LRBT

 

[centershot]

Are Kreiger Palma barrels for 155 gr bullets?

 

[Chappy]

I use the Hybrids, both 185 and 200 gr. with Varget and CCI BR-2 Primers in Lapua brass.

 

[6BRinNZ]

185 Hybrids are quite long - so verify your throat. Also 1-11 is the minimum recommended twist for the Hybrids - it would be worth looking at Bryan Litz latest information on SG and BC performance...BC there is very little between the jug and Hybrid. I don't comment on VLDs as I typically stay away from them, I used them in a 6mm and it was tricky keeping them tuned..YMMV.

One final thing, I watched an NXS 12-42 go bad after being used at 1k with 168s in the .308. It worked fine at the 1k match which was the final relay for the day. The next day started at 800 and it couldn't even get on paper, NXS's are a tough scope but there is a suspicion that having it cranked all the way up for the 1k match did something that broke it thereafter. I haven't seen the repair report so this is just speculation...anyways take the time to look at FPS etc to check that something similar couldn't happen...its a bad day when it does.

 

[Dos XX]

Juggs. 11 twist is right on for them.

What reamer did you end up using?

 

[Alexander-M]

Russell,

I will be using the one that Bill (FTRinPA) offered me. See attached:

And thanks to everyone for your words of wisdom.

Nando

 

[Dos XX]

Alex,

That will work with Juggernauts. You should be able to shoot the 200 Hybrids with that chamber as well.

 

[Joe R]

Here's a thread where people more knowledgeable then me talk about reamer specs for the 185 and 200 Berger http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3867288.msg36536159#msg36536159. Pay careful attention to Down South comments.

Nando AS that sounds like the gun a friend of mine has. It hammers the rest of us at 1K for him. By the way he shoots the 200 hybrids. Today I shot the 200 hybrids for the first time and it's too early for me to render an opinion, a lot of guys at Bayou Rifle use the 185 and 200 hybrids very successfully.

Kindest regard,

Joe

 

[willbas]

I am using the 185 Juggernauts in my Krieger .308 5-R 1-10 twist Heavy Palma 29 inches barrel I am using IMR 4320 43.4 grain I am getting 2700 FPS the photo is a three shoot group at 100 yards.

 

[ballison]

Alex,
The reamer I sent you was recommended by, and ordered from, Dave Kiff at PTG. The freebore is ideal for the Juggernauts, but might work for the other options too. My only concern would be your 12 twist. I know Berger recommends 11 or faster, so I would take the advice of others here who know more about this than I do. I'm using a Bartlein 10 twist in my new rig.

 

[Marksman63]

How long your throat is? That's very important for a proper accuracy load with 185 hybrid and over

 

[Alexander-M]

Alex,
The reamer I sent you was recommended by, and ordered from, Dave Kiff at PTG. The freebore is ideal for the Juggernauts, but might work for the other options too. My only concern would be your 12 twist. I know Berger recommends 11 or faster, so I would take the advice of others here who know more about this than I do. I'm using a Bartlein 10 twist in my new rig.

Bill,
I believe you are thinking of my Savage 12 F-T/R
The new rifle will have 1-11 twist
"• Barrel – Krieger 308 5R 1-11 Palma #14 Heavy SS barrel"


Marksman63,

How long your throat is? That's very important for a proper accuracy load with 185 hybrid and over

I attached the reamer drawing to my second post, above. Could you tell from it?

THX!!

Nando

 

[Marksman63]

Should be 0.168"

Perfect for 185 Jugs up to 210 BTLR and 200 Hybrid

 

[Lapua40X]

it would appear that the Hybrids offer the best characteristics, ....

That would be my choice

 

[mgdietrich]

I shot well over 500 185 Jugs out of a 13 twist as well. A 12 or faster will be just fine, 13 can work when the temperatures are warmer.

 

[Alexander-M]

Although the hybrids will probably work fine, the consensus tilted towards the juggernauts, so that is where I will start.

Looking at Powder Valley(*), they list two 185 gr Berger bullets, both at the same price of $43.42/100, and both with the name 'juggernaut' on the Berger website:

• Part Number 30418 - 30 Cal 185 Grain Match Juggernaut Target
and
• Part Number 30107 - 30 Cal 185 Grain Match Juggernaut OTM Tactical

Both are described equally:
G7 BC = 0.283
G1 BC = 0.560
For 1 in 12" Twist or Faster

Which if these two juggernauts are the ones I should get?

Thank you once again!

Nando

(*) I may order the bullets from Bullets.com - have not decided yet.

 

[Dos XX]

Although the hybrids will probably work fine, the consensus tilted towards the juggernauts, so that is where I will start.

Looking at Powder Valley(*), they list two 185 gr Berger bullets, both at the same price of $43.42/100, and both with the name 'juggernaut' on the Berger website:

• Part Number 30418 - 30 Cal 185 Grain Match Juggernaut Target
and
• Part Number 30107 - 30 Cal 185 Grain Match Juggernaut OTM Tactical

Both are described equally:
G7 BC = 0.283
G1 BC = 0.560
For 1 in 12" Twist or Faster

Which if these two juggernauts are the ones I should get?

Thank you once again!

Nando

(*) I may order the bullets from Bullets.com - have not decided yet.

Same bullets. Different color boxes.

 

[Chappy]

Although the hybrids will probably work fine, the consensus tilted towards the juggernauts, so that is where I will start.

Looking at Powder Valley(*), they list two 185 gr Berger bullets, both at the same price of $43.42/100, and both with the name 'juggernaut' on the Berger website:

• Part Number 30418 - 30 Cal 185 Grain Match Juggernaut Target
and
• Part Number 30107 - 30 Cal 185 Grain Match Juggernaut OTM Tactical

Both are described equally:
G7 BC = 0.283
G1 BC = 0.560
For 1 in 12" Twist or Faster

Which if these two juggernauts are the ones I should get?

Thank you once again!

Nando

(*) I may order the bullets from Bullets.com - have not decided yet.

Same bullets. Different color boxes.

What he said.