Generally speaking, my preference for my Dashers are 105 VLD's. Primarily, my 6 Dashers are used for either 300 or 600 yard F-Open in "normal" winds, i.e. 10mph and under.. We at Bayou Rifles are in our 1000 yard "Summer Format" which helps us out in the formidable heat and humidity we experience here in Houston. This year we have settled on a 2 match / 20 shots for score with unlimited sighters in both matches, type schedule. The last 2 months I have used 1 of my Dashers which I shoot 108 Bergers. I realize that unless we have pretty dead, as in NO WIND or STEADY WIND conditions, I am at a distinct disadvantage. That's okay, I am NOT the best Long-range shooter anyhow. I am out here to have fun. If I shoot, I have the cake, if I win, I get the frosting and eat it too! That does not happen very often at 1000 yards. However, these last 2 months have shown me something. The 108's have given me a vertical of about 2.5" at 1000 yards. This, to me, is an incredible vertical. Now I lose the matches by blowing 9's at 3 O'Clock and 9 O'Clock because of my "less than stellar" ability to read the wind and guide those diminutive 108's out "yonder"!! But I can NOT fault the bullet. I have never, over 2 months and in excess of 100 rounds, achieved 3" or LESS vertical with the 105's on a STEADY basis.. Now it may be that my particular barrel just LOVES those bullets, I don't know. All I know is that those boattails can run with anything! Even though I don't win against the "Big 7 Boomers" I am having the time of my life with the "little" Dasher!!!
Berger 108gr. Boattail
- Thread starter ShootDots
- Start date
bdale said:I'm pretty sure that Rodney Wagner was shooting them at our club when he set the world record of .336 for five at 600 yards
I am telling you that these bullets will run with the B-I-G D-O-G-S as far as accuracy goes. I was astounded. Like I stated in my Topic, generally I shoot VLD's because they are excellent. But, at least in my rifle, these babies are off the scale!
I have inspected, modified and closed the meplats on close to 260,000 bullets since 2002. That includes both commercial and custom bullets. This year I have had the pleasure of working on the meplats of thousands of Berger 108s. I have measured and inspected them in every way possible. I have cut them in half. I have drilled them out from one end to the other, etc., etc. With the exception of the old 6mm, 6.5 and .30 caliber offerings from Clinch River, I have never worked on a better bullet on paper than the 108 Berger -- NONE. Just as an example, I have customers with certain lots that measure from dead nuts to .0005 BTO. The meplats are uniform, and the OAL is very uniform as well (can't reveal the lot numbers).
There is another factor working in the shooter's favor with the 108. It tunes VERY easy in or out of the lands on most barrels. It is much easier to tune than a VLD of any kind. Respectfully, there are many fine shooters who just have a difficult time getting a tune and maintaining a tune good enough to break records and win Championships. The 108 can cure that.
What is the down side of the 108? The BC is a stated G1 of 511 and a G7 of 262. In of of itself, this makes the 108 a better 600 yard bullet than a 1000 yard bullet for those who just have a difficult time with the wind conditions they need to shoot.
Everyone seems to be crazy over BC. I understand. But without uniform VERTICAL your BC will not help you break records or win Championships. Give me uniform BC and a bullet that will keep its tune any time. The BC can be enhanced by anyone with the correct meplat closing die and fixture -- that means one that DOES NOT follow the contour of the ogive to the meplat like so many believe. See a recent thread and a reply by Bryan Litz. His observations and assertions are correct. If you really know what you are doing with the meplat on the 108, you can make it a precision dart with a tangent ogive. That is another issue.
Bottom line: If your 6mm will not shoot a Berger 108, then you have a tomato stake for a barrel.
Regards,
Jim Hardy
Hardy Custom Bullets, Inc.
Passion + Precision = Perfection
Shop: 770-886-1997
Cell: 770-855-8960
There is another factor working in the shooter's favor with the 108. It tunes VERY easy in or out of the lands on most barrels. It is much easier to tune than a VLD of any kind. Respectfully, there are many fine shooters who just have a difficult time getting a tune and maintaining a tune good enough to break records and win Championships. The 108 can cure that.
What is the down side of the 108? The BC is a stated G1 of 511 and a G7 of 262. In of of itself, this makes the 108 a better 600 yard bullet than a 1000 yard bullet for those who just have a difficult time with the wind conditions they need to shoot.
Everyone seems to be crazy over BC. I understand. But without uniform VERTICAL your BC will not help you break records or win Championships. Give me uniform BC and a bullet that will keep its tune any time. The BC can be enhanced by anyone with the correct meplat closing die and fixture -- that means one that DOES NOT follow the contour of the ogive to the meplat like so many believe. See a recent thread and a reply by Bryan Litz. His observations and assertions are correct. If you really know what you are doing with the meplat on the 108, you can make it a precision dart with a tangent ogive. That is another issue.
Bottom line: If your 6mm will not shoot a Berger 108, then you have a tomato stake for a barrel.
Regards,
Jim Hardy
Hardy Custom Bullets, Inc.
Passion + Precision = Perfection
Shop: 770-886-1997
Cell: 770-855-8960
JHardy,
Thank you for the report and kind words !
Thank you for the report and kind words !
I shoot Berger 108's in a 6BRX and a Dasher. I wasted a lot of time and $ trying to make 105 Hybrid's shoot in either gun, never did get it right. Then one day I stumbled across the Twist Calculator on the Berger website. Berger recommends a 7.75 twist for it's 105 Hybrid, both my barrels are 8 twist. Lesson learned VLD's take a faster twist rate
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500stroker,
Have you run your data over our TWIST RATE CALCULATOR ? :
http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-stability-calculator-updated/ And how to interpret your findings ? :
http://www.bergerbullets.com/berger-bullets-twist-rate-recommendations-by-eric-stecker-bryan-litz/. Be sure to enter the correct or as close to correct ALTITUDE you will be shooting at to get accurate answers! Same for our BALLISTIC CALCULATOR :
http://www.bergerbullets.com/ballistics/. A lot of guys leave this out and get faulty data.
FYI If YOU GUYS NEED BULLETS AND YOUR STOCKING DEALER DOSENT HAVE THEM. TELL HIM TO GIVE US A CALL!
Jay Christopherson
Not An Admin
say what now?
An 8-twist barrel has been the go-to for 105 class bullets for as long as I can remember (not that long, granted, but still). The Dasher and an 8-twist barrel shooting 105 Hybrids or 105 VLD's (at some seating depth) @ 3040fps is as closed to a guaranteed formula as you are gonna get, IME.Boys, I'll stick by what I stated early.say what now?
I just went back and ran the numbers on the Berger Twist Calculator and it stated that a 1 in 8 twist barrel is "Marginally" and recommends a 7.75 twist barrel for a Berger 6mm 105gr Hybrid bullet. I used 3050 fps, 59F, 700 ft above sea level.
Read it and weep but dont kill the messenger. LOL
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I appreciate your comments Berger has a great website and I do understand how to use it and how to interpret the data. I shot Bergers religiously. The readers of this thread just need to try the electronic tools on the Berger website and see for themselves.
Jay Christopherson
Not An Admin
Well, darn it, someone should call up the NRA and let em know all those BR national records set with a Dasher and an 8-twist need to be revoked cause Berger says they are only marginally stable! lol...
I'm not disputing what Berger's calculator claims, but you can't dispute on paper results.
EDIT:. I'm not trying to disparage you, I'm just disturbing the sh*t a bit...
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