Bent 30-06 brass correction?

[Anakin]

Hello, this is my 3rd thread in this forum, it all started with a ring of bulge after full length sizing my brass:
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...fter-fl-resizing-of-once-fired-brass.3926316/

When testing my first batch ammo in the range I had another issue, most ammo won't chamber easily, all dimensions are in spec but most of them just won't chamber without smacking the bolt:
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/reloaded-30-06-wont-chamber-in-winchester-model-70.3926650/

All brass are once fired from this 69 Winchester model 70 (factory load) and full length sized. After one day of try-and-error, I believe I've found the cause:
I noticed that the effort of chambering is related to the angle of the brass before entering the chamber. For a lot of the sized brass the ring is not a complete circle, maybe only half circle.It indicates the chamber is not uniform and the brass expands more at certain spot. Here are two pics of the ring on two sides of the same brass:



Here is my exaggerated sketch of bent brass:

So the head of the brass is actually not straight, tilting towards the no-bulging side, every time if I chamber it with the bulging half ring downwards, the upper side the rim catches the bolt edge.
The amount is so slight that if I put my safe into half-position, the sear from the trigger doesn't contact the rear of the bolt and bolt is more level and won't catch the edge of the rim. But in firing position with the slight force from the sear tilt the bolt face down a little bit and hit the rim edge.

I tested on multiple brass with multiple angles, the above position is the only angle that result in stiff bolt and if I force the bolt to close, there is a noticeable mark on the top of the rim.

So here is my question:
I don't think the full length sizing will correct that angle, the only way of easy chambering is before firing each shot, inspect the position of the bulge and make sure it facing upward. Anyone has similar issue please advice, Thanks!

 

[dkhunt14]

I would send that gun back to the factory or oout a new barrel on it. It looks like that brass is ready to separate. This could be a dangerous situation. Matt

 

[olddav]

I've seen the same thing from my 30-06 but only after reloading many times. The answer to the brass issue is to replace it, I don't believe there is any way to save it.

How many times has the brass been loaded?
What is your charge weight and powder?
I assume it's a 30-06.

 

[Mtstalker]

It appears from previous posts that your chamber is on the larger side of spec. I had a rifle that did this and if you measure fired and new brass .2" from the case head you will probaly see a fair amount of diffrence. I have talked to winchester and hornady and both state they make therr brass at the minimum size so it will function in 99% of firearms. What your seeing is a bulge from small cases mixed with a large chamber. This causes the case to lay in the bottom of the chamber or your ejector tension on it forces the brass to one side. Check with a paperclip bent into a small "L" at the end inside the case at the web area. If you can feel a groove or it catch throw it out. I have 2 rifles ( both made overseas) that do this, i bought some ppu brass or any other European made amd the problem was solved. European brass is made with cip dimensions so it is larger than most brass. If this doesnt happen with lower loads and only near max back off.

 

[olddav]

Upon further review (earler post) I'm siding with Stopp429.

 

[Anakin]

I've seen the same thing from my 30-06 but only after reloading many times. The answer to the brass issue is to replace it, I don't believe there is any way to save it.

How many times has the brass been loaded?
What is your charge weight and powder?
I assume it's a 30-06.

They're once fired brass, I bought factory ammo and only shot once in this rifle

 

[Anakin]

It appears from previous posts that your chamber is on the larger side of spec. I had a rifle that did this and if you measure fired and new brass .2" from the case head you will probaly see a fair amount of diffrence. I have talked to winchester and hornady and both state they make therr brass at the minimum size so it will function in 99% of firearms. What your seeing is a bulge from small cases mixed with a large chamber. This causes the case to lay in the bottom of the chamber or your ejector tension on it forces the brass to one side. Check with a paperclip bent into a small "L" at the end inside the case at the web area. If you can feel a groove or it catch throw it out. I have 2 rifles ( both made overseas) that do this, i bought some ppu brass or any other European made amd the problem was solved. European brass is made with cip dimensions so it is larger than most brass. If this doesnt happen with lower loads and only near max back off.

The PPU behaves the best, being least bulged, but the bolt closing issue still exist. The Winchester brass seems having the smallest dimensions and has the most noticeable ring and most difficult to chamber at certain angle. As discussed in the "ring on the case" thread, the ring is not a sign of head separation, at least not for those once fired case, but full length sizing may result in very limited case life. The rifle is a 69 Winchester model 70

 

[Mtstalker]

Yes mine never have seperated. Have you torn your bolt down and cleaned it and checked for burrs and crud?

 

[SheepDog]

The first thing to check is to see if a fired case will chamber without doing anything to it.
Take a fired case and with a black marker make a line from the primer to the outside of the case.
Put the case back in the gun with the line up. If it won't chamber then there might be a problem with your guns chamber.
If it chambers easily then turn the case so the line is on the right side and chamber it again.
Continue to turn the case if it is ever hard to chamber then you need to have the gun checked for a misaligned chamber.
If it always chambers then the problem is in your reloading process or dies.
Size the case and see if it chambers - rotate the shell until it won't chamber or you have rotated it all the way around.
If it ever won't chamber then you may have an off-center die.
Let me know how the test goes.

 

[dkhunt14]

The PPU behaves the best, being least bulged, but the bolt closing issue still exist. The Winchester brass seems having the smallest dimensions and has the most noticeable ring and most difficult to chamber at certain angle. As discussed in the "ring on the case" thread, the ring is not a sign of head separation, at least not for those once fired case, but full length sizing may result in very limited case life. The rifle is a 69 Winchester model 70

The ring is the first sign head separation is coming. I have seen cases separated in two firings. If you didn't bore scope the case or run a sharpened bent paper clip inside the case, you don't know. Matt

 

[SheepDog]

If the ring appears on the brass after firing I would agree that it's a sign of pending trouble. When it appears after sizing it means that is as far as the case is being sized.

 

[243winxb]

So here is my question:
I don't think the full length sizing will correct that angle, the only way of easy chambering is before firing each shot, inspect the position of the bulge and make sure it facing upward. Anyone has similar issue please advice

You said

The rifle worked fine the last time I shot factory ammo,

To return fired brass as close to factory ammo as possible, a small base die is used. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/686446/rcbs-small-base-sizer-die-30-06-springfield

I have seen a factory rifle with an oval chamber. The small base die let the reloads chamber freely.

 

[Anakin]

You said

To return fired brass as close to factory ammo as possible, a small base die is used. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/686446/rcbs-small-base-sizer-die-30-06-springfield

I have seen a factory rifle with an oval chamber. The small base die let the reloads chamber freely.

Thanks! Does the small base die work the brass a bit more and reduce the reloading life?

 

[Anakin]

The first thing to check is to see if a fired case will chamber without doing anything to it.
Take a fired case and with a black marker make a line from the primer to the outside of the case.
Put the case back in the gun with the line up. If it won't chamber then there might be a problem with your guns chamber.
If it chambers easily then turn the case so the line is on the right side and chamber it again.
Continue to turn the case if it is ever hard to chamber then you need to have the gun checked for a misaligned chamber.
If it always chambers then the problem is in your reloading process or dies.
Size the case and see if it chambers - rotate the shell until it won't chamber or you have rotated it all the way around.
If it ever won't chamber then you may have an off-center die.
Let me know how the test goes.

I tried the fired brass from the first reloading batch and it won't chamber. I'll test the factory ammo from Winchester and PPU next week, thanks a lot for your help

 

[SheepDog]

No problem Anakin. Remember to try the fired brass back in the chamber BEFORE you size it for the first test.

 

[243winxb]

Does the small base die work the brass a bit more and reduce the reloading life?

For the most part, no. The neck area gets worked about the same.

If factory ammo works ok, then the small base die should help.

 

[olddav]

I use a small base die (RCBS 30-06) and it wll not correct the problem the OP described, at least mine will not.

 

[Anakin]

I use a small base die (RCBS 30-06) and it wll not correct the problem the OP described, at least mine will not.

Thanks for you info, how did you solve your problem?

 

[olddav]

Didn't,
I tossed them in the trash. I Realy do not have a solution to the problem, I just know that small based dies won't help you. I am still going to follow ths thread to see if anyone else comes up with solution.

 

[Anakin]

Didn't,
I tossed them in the trash. I Realy do not have a solution to the problem, I just know that small based dies won't help you. I am still going to follow ths thread to see if anyone else comes up with solution.

Here is another thread I found:
https://www.shootersforum.com/handloading-procedures-practices/59515-30-06-case-head-separation.html
This guy had the exactly same problem, his post #41 describes the same problem as I mentioned above. He finally gave up and traded in his barrel.