Benchrest ????

[JDBraddy]

Hi, I'm a long time shooter/reloader but know little or nothing of benchrest or extreme accuracy. I have recently started shooting my rifles more, have two AR's, a Rem700 in .308 and have just recently added a Savage Model 12 in .223 1 in 7" twist hoping that it would be more accurate than my AR's, but so farr, it hasn't been. It's shooting groups just under an inch at 100yds, and about four inches at 300yds using my handloads, 69gr Noslers on top of 23gr Varget 2.260 OAL. They where loaded on a Dillon 550b using an RCBS FL Die set. These have always done pretty well in my AR's for Highpower and 3Gun competition, but I've heard benchrest shooters do things a little differently. I would just like some advice how to get better accuracy out of my model 12 Savage.

 

[Taildrag15X]

First you need to do some reading, second forget about loading on the Dilion for (dead nuts) accurarcy, third you will need to develope a load for the Savage (they have long throats) with the bullet seating, powder charge (best at + or - .02 grs. not .1 gr.), primer selection and brass prep. all very important factors. Make up some ladder test loads, have really good record keeping skills and shoot untill it does what it should.

BTW my 1-7" likes 77, 80 & 90gr Sierra Match Kings and 77, 80 & 90gr. VLD Bergers all in the 24.25-25.50grs of Varget, all loaded long but not into the lands................

 

[JDBraddy]

First you need to do some reading, second forget about loading on the Dilion for (dead nuts) accurarcy, third you will need to develope a load for the Savage (they have long throats) with the bullet seating, powder charge (best at + or - .02 grs. not .1 gr.), primer selection and brass prep. all very important factors. Make up some ladder test loads, have really good record keeping skills and shoot untill it does what it should.

BTW my 1-7" likes 77, 80 & 90gr Sierra Match Kings and 77, 80 & 90gr. VLD Bergers all in the 24.25-25.50grs of Varget, all loaded long but not into the lands................

Ok, let me see if I'm understanding you correctly, you say I need to.....

Buy some books on reloading for extreme accuracy, and read them.

Forget using my Dillon, so do I need to buy an arbor press or something?

Then start with a single lot of brass, separate them into groups by weight, then do all the brass-prep stuff like reaming and uniforming primer pockets, trimming, annealing, neck turning etc....

Weigh each powder charge to within 1/100th of a grain instead of 1/10th of a grain.

Use longer heavier bullets with higher balistic co-efficient, and use a stoney point tool or similar to measure the length of the throat and load the bullets out long to about 2-3/1000ths of an inch off the lands?

Then start a log book and make up ladder test loads and record the results for each in the log book? What information should I include in the book?

 

[markr]

First you need to do some reading, second forget about loading on the Dilion for (dead nuts) accurarcy, third you will need to develope a load for the Savage (they have long throats) with the bullet seating, powder charge (best at + or - .02 grs. not .1 gr.), primer selection and brass prep. all very important factors. Make up some ladder test loads, have really good record keeping skills and shoot untill it does what it should.

BTW my 1-7" likes 77, 80 & 90gr Sierra Match Kings and 77, 80 & 90gr. VLD Bergers all in the 24.25-25.50grs of Varget, all loaded long but not into the lands................

I believe that .02 on the powder is cutting it mighty fine for the equipment at hand... a powder scale that is that sensitive is quite expensive at best and totally not necessary...IMHO
Mark

 

[BoydAllen]

First suggestion....different dies. Second suggestion, the best brass that you can find. Third suggestion, some tools to measure shoulder bump, OAL off of a bullet's ogive, and at what OAL different bullets will touch the rifling. A way to measure how straight your ammo is is not a bad idea either. I think that a good single stage press would be helpful as well. As far as measuring powder is concerned, you can tune up a regular balance scale to be plenty good enough, and many of the powders that you may try can be thrown, with good technique. The rest should be thrown light and trickled on the scale. Now, understand that for shooting groups at 100 yards, my pick would not be a 7" twist barrel. Luckily, if you want to change that situation, some time in the future, there are many options that are available for your Savage. You can change you own barrels. Now come a couple of questions. What sort of rest, bags and bench will you be using? Do you have any way to look at what the wind is doing between you and the target? This should get you started in the pursuit of better results at informal group shooting from the bench. I think that a good first go round goal should be half inch five shot groups. If you get that done, and you enjoy the process, you can refine from there. Do you have a Sinclair International catalog? http://www.sinclairintl.com/
They are one of the best sources for many of the bits and pieces that you will need.

As the sign on the wall at the speed shop used to say, "Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?" Only in this case, you can substitute accuracy for speed. The farther that you want to go beyond half inch groups, the more expensive it will be, both in time and money. Good luck! Have fun.

 

[JDBraddy]

Actually I do have a Sinclair catalogue, I also have a 1995 printing of The Precision Shooting Reloading Guide edited by Dave Brennan, and a 1989 printing of The Ultimate in Rifle Accuracy by Glenn Newick. I realize they are a bit dated though.

I have some new, unfired Lake City brass.

I have a stoney Point tool and a Sinclair bullet comparator, wich should allow me to measure OAL off the bullets ogive and the distance to the lands. I also have an RCBS Precision Micrometer in .223 wich should allow me to measure shoulder bump.

I use a Dillon Electronic scale. While I don't typically measure each powder charge, just measure several to set the powder measure, then start cranking them out. I do have a powder trickler and a funnel, so I could start doing as you suggest, throwing a light charge, then trickle on the scale to the desired charge weight for each case.

I have a lee hand press, actually two, that I used to use before I bought my Dillon, so I could put the sizing die in one, and the seating die in the other, but I doubt that that counts for what you're talking about. I am open to suggestions and advice reguarding what Dies and single stage press I should get.

I have an old Hart Benchrest that I bought from Sinclairs back in the 90's and a Protektor bunny ear rear bag. The Benches at our range are wood, made of 2X6 preassure treated Lumber. No I do not have a set of wind flags.

 

[BoydAllen]

You are in pretty good shape. Dies...this is going to be heresy to some, but if you have a typical factory chamber, it may be that turning necks may not give an accuracy advantage. If we go with that, the most accurate way that I know to size unturned necks is a Lee collet die. That however does not solve the entire problem. You will need to body size/shoulder bump (using tight case with primer removed as a reference) at some point, so a body die, such as Redding sells, is in order. If you don't mind the expenditure, an arbor press such as Sinclair, or my friend Lynwood Harrell sell, paired with a Wilson seater would be good. As far as a press goes, I would suggest one of Lynwoods. If you want to be able to size larger calibers, the largest one would be the way to go. One reason for this, is that I would suggest that you consider loading at the range for more efficient load work up. (I know, shocking heresy ;-) As far as your rear bag is concerned, pick up an Otto ring, and put it under yours. For now, sticks and surveyors tape will get you started for something to look at to see what the wind is doing. Start out with a couple, so that you do not go into information overload, and then work up to four. Don't bother with one at the target. If your bags are leather, where the rifle touches, some baby powder will improve the slide. There are several powders that do well in a .223, but I must confess that none of my friends has experience with a 7" twist. For 50-52 grain bullets, more than one has done well with 748 and Federal primers. I am not sure that you could touch the rifling with these bullets, perhaps borrowing a few samples from friends and doing some measuring would be a good preliminary step. From my experience, my .22 caliber varmint rifles seem to do well with bullets loaded .006 - .010 longer than firm touch, as measured with my old Sinclair tool, that uses a rod and stop collars. I am not fond of the Sinclair cleaning rod guides, I understand that Neal Jones is offering rod bushings for his. A famous benchrest smith once told me that any guide that is large enough at the back to admit a brush, isn't much good for protecting a rifle's throat. All of the better guides have bushings or tubes that go on the rod, to reduce clearance, thereby enhancing alignment. I like Dewey rods, and my go to cleaners are Wipe Out foam,when cleaning at home, and Butch's bore shine, at the range. I generally avoid abrasives as much as possible, but it should be mentioned that factory barrels can require a different procedure than lapped barrels. Afterthought...my at home press is a Rockchucker that has the Lock-n-Load conversion. It is on a plywood base that can travel to the range when I am helping friends work up loads for their hunting rifles. Perhaps this would be a good place for you to start, heavier, but more versatile than the Harrell. Mine has served me well over the years. Let us know how you are progressing.