benchrest rear bag preferences

[richard_123]

Moving to benchrest-----needing advice on preferred rear bag and why. The rifle has a 3/4 inch bottom on butt.

 

[RJinTexas]

Richard, I just purchased one of Seb's BigFoot rear bags and a new NEO rest. I used the new bag for the first time the other day. I had been using a Protektor Doctor bag which is also a nice bag but I liked the way my rifle tracked in the BigFoot much better and I really like the soft rubber bottom it really seems to stay put on the bench. I was shooting a 30br rifle wearing a McMillan Edge which has about a 1/2" flat. I have yet to try one of my F class stocks which have a 3/4" flat in the new BigFoot.

RJ

 

[artbosco]

Moving to benchrest-----needing advice on preferred rear bag and why. The rifle has a 3/4 inch bottom on butt.

For short range Benchrest 3/4" is very unusual. What kind of discipline do you intend to shoot in? What kind of a rifle is it? Competing?

 

[BoydAllen]

One more little detail...shooting style is a factor. Different methods require different tools.

 

[richard_123]

Looking at competing in NBRSA and IBS 600 yard matches. rifle is a 308, 24" lilja 1/11, 3 twist barrel. Purchased blank laminated stock. did all the machining and fitting myself. The forearm is 2.950 wide flat, with recessed channel---so gun will ride the outside 3/4 inch rails. Cut the barrel channel, inletted for trigger assembly, Timney trigger with bottom safety.
local shoots 300-600 yards with occasionally some 1K. If necessary I can take action and barrel out and re-contour the stock. I have now moved into the senior age group...just want to have fun.

 

[rain164845]

I'm interested in this as well. I just got an edgewood 1/2" spacing bag and now I have a 5/8 flat stock coming. I am inclined to think that it won't work that well, but maybe if I let sand out of the ears, then the stock can ride the groove. I'll see when it gets here.
Joe

 

[TheBlueEyedBear]

I'm with RJ on this. The SEB BigFoot http://www.sebcoax.com/sebrearbag.asp is a real joy to shoot off of. And, as we all know, the more comfortable you are when shooting the better chance you have of shooting better.
I really don't know the difference in this bag and the Edgewood bags previously used, but All my guns track better in this bag. Again, I don't know the difference, I'm just the nut behind the trigger.

 

[alf]

The rifle has a 3/4 inch bottom on butt.

You'll need a bag with 7/8" spacing between the ears.

 

[artbosco]

I'm interested in this as well. I just got an edgewood 1/2" spacing bag and now I have a 5/8 flat stock coming. I am inclined to think that it won't work that well, but maybe if I let sand out of the ears, then the stock can ride the groove. I'll see when it gets here. Joe

1/2" = 4/8" You have the right spacing for the bottom 5/8" flat of the stock. Don't remove sand from the ears. Keep them firm, but not as hard as a rock. And, make sure the area directly under the ears is real firm.

You actually want the spacing 1/8" smaller, so the butt rides OFF the groove/flat of the rear bag just a tad.

You should see a little light between the bottom of the stock and the flat of the bag.

You might want to review this before filling: http://benchrest.netfirms.com/Filling%20Sandbags.htm

If you're not familiar with Speedy, he is Speedy Gonzalez, Benchrest Hall of Fame inductee, author of many articles and a gunsmith instructor at a junior college in Colorado.

 

[artbosco]

The rifle has a 3/4 inch bottom on butt.

You'll need a bag with 7/8" spacing between the ears.

3/4" = 6/8". You'll need 5/8" spacing between the ears. You always order 1/8" smaller so the butt rides slightly OFF the flat between the ears.

September 20th, 2007 Rear Bags–Match Them to Your Stock Profile
For better accuracy and more consistent tracking, it is important to match your rear sand bag to the profile of your stock. ... Stocks with a flat on the bottom rear normally work best in a sandbag that has a slot between the ears. NOTE: Ideally, you do not want the flat resting directly on the stitching–it’s better to have the bottom of the stock contacting the sides of the ears a little bit above the center seam. But you still need spacing between the ears to get the right fit–it should not be so tight as to pinch or “grab” the stock unevenly. With a more conventional round-bottomed stock, with a radius toe, you’ll probably get best results from a bag with taller ears, and you should experiment with spacing. Source: www.accurateshooter.com

 

[alf]

Baloney.

I hope everyone sets their rear bag up that way.



A picture's worth a thousand words......

This stock has a 5/8" flat on the bottom, you need a 3/4" spacing on the stitches.

 

[artbosco]

Baloney.

I hope everyone sets their rear bag up that way.



A picture's worth a thousand words......

This stock has a 5/8" flat on the bottom, you need a 3/4" spacing on the stitches.

With all due respect ... it certainly is. Thanks for the detailed picture. It illustrates perfectly, exactly what can happen with over sized spacing.

The inverted V-shaped lump [seen directly in the center of the picture] is one of the situations that should be avoided, along with irregular and high stitching [also seen] that can prevent smooth recoiling. That's why you want to be slightly off the bag. Run your fingers over the stitching. Some can be quite high and knobby and if too high can retard a smooth recoil that can induce all kinds of patterns seen on paper. Remember, a .001" movement at the rifle, can cause 1/4" movement on paper at 100 yards.

Also, the upper outward bulging and lower inward protruding [seen in the] rear ear material indicates the bag may be under filled. If the ears were now overfilled they may move the bottom of the stock off the bag where it wouldn't be subjected to the flat's irregular surfaces.

If anything, err with the same size, for example 5/8" spacing for a 5/8" wide stock butt. Over filling the ears then would be easier to lift the stock's butt off the flat. However, 1/8"under size spacing is still recommended.

Edgewood's standard stitching is 3/8" wide for the standard 1/2" wide butt. 1/2" = 4/8". 4/8" - 1/8"= 3/8".

In all fairness, I shoot competitive, short range Benchrest, FREE RECOIL [the only thing touched is the trigger], and want to create a situation that does not disrupt any movement in my rifle's recoil. With hard holding, you can probably get away with many things as long as they're done consistently. Shoot safe!

 

[in2deep]

The Seb bags have a piece of neoprene under and in front of the stitching which raises the stock above the stitches on a nice smooth pad. If you don't have consistant rifle/bag handling well under control and shoot with the rifle off the bottom and riding jammed between the ears it can induce some nasty vertical as the downward pressure first pushes down then pushes back up from the ears being squeezed and moved and surprisingly of late more shooters are shooting with the rifle settled down on the bottom of the bag and and may turn out to be a better method for some folks.
Test: move rifle front and rear simulating firing and see how much vertical you are getting while looking through the scope and also check the point of aim after you slide the rifle forward back to battery and see if your combination and technique are functioning properly.

 

[LHSmith]

Speaking from my experience in pt. blank BR, which require the bottom of the butt stock to be angled, I found that letting the stock bottom out in the flat between the ears produced all sorts of problems not the least of which were tracking problems.I have gone through 5 different rear bags and countless bag/ear hardness set-ups until I diagnosed this problem. Perhaps with the LR BR stocks (which allow a parallel stock bottom) results may be different.

 

[BoydAllen]

What worked the best, and the worst, and for what stock?

 

[LHSmith]

Robertson "Speedy" style stock.Farley front rest. Free recoil technique. Best tracking is with a Mini-gator with 3/8" spacing, heavy sand in base, packed to fill shape of bag without starting to bulge. Speedy mix (30% parakeet gravel & 70% play sand) in ears, packed firm.
Worst bag was a Protector Bumble Bee with mid ears, the material and stitching
didn't seem to provide enough support for the ears to retain their shape, causing stock to settle into bag flat.
For a hunter class stock- 2- 1/4" fore-end, Shade-tree front rest, a bunny eared Bald Eagle bag with the same sand combination works well, but I use a light hold this rifle.

 

[mkihne]

From the pic, it appears that the stock may be a shahane or similar. Bill recommends a 3/4" "groove" for that stock. Edgewood has a similar spacing betweek ears available but not standard on their bag. Check their website and maybe give them a call. I also believe the Doctor bag by Protector may be wide as well.

 

[BoydAllen]

Thanks for the info. Now I have to go on a parakeet gravel quest. Any Ideas?

 

[artbosco]

Thanks for the info. Now I have to go on a parakeet gravel quest. Any Ideas?

Your local super market pet section. I use the Hart's brand and filter out the large particles.

If you shoot or are going to shoot in NBRSA registered matches ensure the parakeet gravel grain's size conforms to the geological definition and size of SAND.

Now, there's a whole new issue that can be discussed.

 

[alf]

With all due respect ... it certainly is. Thanks for the detailed picture. It illustrates perfectly, exactly what can happen with over sized spacing.

The inverted V-shaped lump [seen directly in the center of the picture] is one of the situations that should be avoided, along with irregular and high stitching [also seen] that can prevent smooth recoiling. That's why you want to be slightly off the bag. Run your fingers over the stitching. Some can be quite high and knobby and if too high can retard a smooth recoil that can induce all kinds of patterns seen on paper. Remember, a .001" movement at the rifle, can cause 1/4" movement on paper at 100 yards.

Also, the upper outward bulging and lower inward protruding [seen in the] rear ear material indicates the bag may be under filled. If the ears were now overfilled they may move the bottom of the stock off the bag where it wouldn't be subjected to the flat's irregular surfaces.

If anything, err with the same size, for example 5/8" spacing for a 5/8" wide stock butt. Over filling the ears then would be easier to lift the stock's butt off the flat. However, 1/8"under size spacing is still recommended.

Edgewood's standard stitching is 3/8" wide for the standard 1/2" wide butt. 1/2" = 4/8". 4/8" - 1/8"= 3/8".

In all fairness, I shoot competitive, short range Benchrest, FREE RECOIL [the only thing touched is the trigger], and want to create a situation that does not disrupt any movement in my rifle's recoil. With hard holding, you can probably get away with many things as long as they're done consistently. Shoot safe!

With all due respect,

The picture is deceiving.

The "lump" is in no way, shape, or form, in the way of smooth recoil.

The bag is as level as water and flat as a pancake.

The stitching is not high, knobby, or rough.

I'll guarantee you the bag is not under filled.

It is a Doctor bag, and I filled it FULL with heavy sand and then spent two days soaking, caressing, beating, and pounding it into submission. I wanted the ST-1000's butt to be fully cradled and supported on the bottom and both sides of the ears, for straight back recoil and a return to battery POA position. Real important when it's time to rock and roll. I can run 10 shots in 20 seconds or so if I have to.

In all fairness,

I cut my competition teeth, starting back in the 80's, on close range Benchrest, have actively shot Hunter Class since the early 90's, added 1000 yard Benchrest to my schedule for the last 8 years, and finished up this year in 2nd place, in the nation, in Shooter Of The Year points at 1K, among other things.....