Belted magnums question

[CamTheBam]

Hi Guys what are the pro/cons of belted magnum cartridges like the 300 WINMAG?

 

[Pres100]

there could be a "con" if setting the HS from the belt in regard to case life or you can get a bulge. Most just go ahead and set up the full length die like normal and headspace using the shoulder instead of the belt. That way your case better fits the chamber.

 

[lb-ft]

Pros = ammo availability, selection, cost with 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag.

If a new build or a new purchase, I’d look at the PRC cartridges, Norma Mag, WSM or SAUM. More modern design and far more prevalent in today’s winners circle.

 

[XTR]

The belt was originally put on early big H&H magnum cases that were highly tapered and did not have much of or any shoulder from which to head space. Functionally the belt acted like a rimmed case for headspacing but fed better than a rimmed case. As technology advanced (and they quit using cordite as a propellant) people developed straighter walled cases with shoulders, but the available brass was still the H&H style, just like pretty much every wildcat or new case in the world is based off of an existing case today.

These days the belt serves little purpose to a reloader and can, if you run high pressures on your reloads, result in a "buldge" just in front of the belt where the die doesn't size all the way down. If you are reloading you simply size exactly the way you do for a 308 or a 284 or any other case. Bump the shoulder .002 and don't be concerned about the belt.

There is a collet die that will size to the belt, but what I hear from most people is that you don't need one.

Most of the belted magnums are based on the 375H&H case.

From Chuck Hawks, cases based on the 375 H&H:

​	.308 Norma​
	.257 Weatherby Magnum​	8mm Remington Magnum​
	.264 Winchester Magnum​	.338 Winchester Magnum​
	6.5mm Remington Magnum​	.340 Weatherby Magnum​
	.270 Weatherby Magnum​	.350 Remington Magnum​
	.275 Holland & Holland Magnum​	.358 Norma Magnum​
	7mm STW (Shooting Times Westerner)​	.375 Weatherby Magnum​
	7x61mm Sharpe & Hart Magnum​	.400 Holland & Holland Magnum​
	7mm Remington Magnum​	.416 Remington Magnum​
	7mm Weatherby Magnum​	.416 Taylor​
	.300 Holland & Holland Magnum​	.458 Winchester Magnum​
	.300 Weatherby Magnum​	.458 Lott​
	.300 Winchester Magnum​	.244 Holland & Holland Magnum

 

[PJ1]

Hardly an expert on this but the cons that I have heard on 300 WM is short barrel life, and shortened brass life. Case head separation indicators need to be checked.

There is a die from Larry Willis that I use and I like it. Claims to extend the brass life and takes care of the battle of the bulge.

 

[edwardware]

Hi Guys what are the pro/cons of belted magnum cartridges like the 300 WINMAG?

The most significant con I'm aware of is the prevalence on nonsensical chatter about the belt spoiling accuracy, limiting brass life, or giving you hives.

If you have a well done chamber (not sloppy) and you set up your sizing die to match, you'll get the usual brass lifespan. . . the brass will die for loose pockets somewhere upwards of 10 reloads.

If you have a sloppy chamber, you might need Willis' Belted Magnum Die, and if you do you'll get shorter brass life because you're sizing and stretching the case right above the belt.

Otherwise, situation normal.

 

[RustyInBend]

Pros = ammo availability, selection, cost with 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag.

If a new build or a new purchase, I’d look at the PRC cartridges, Norma Mag, WSM or SAUM. More modern design and far more prevalent in today’s winners circle.

This is a good assessment. If you've got it, shoot it. If you're buying it, go with 300-PRC or something without the belt. It's just a machine-gun remnant.

 

[Bill K]

What machine-gun or full auto type weapon used a belted case ?
Never saw one, with any belted/rim case and have shot many from 9mm to 50BMG.

 

[FeMan]

On every belted magnum I have worked with, sizing the base at the belt has eventually become challenging. Even with a collet die. There are some good calibers that use belted cases but I stay away from them. They have no advantage over non-belted and one more issue to work around.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I stay away from belted mags myself.

 

[XTR]

What machine-gun or full auto type weapon used a belted case ?
Never saw one, with any belted/rim case and have shot many from 9mm to 50BMG.

Just off of the top of my head the Gatling gun shot 45-70. I'm sure there were a few more in there between the 1860s and the introduction of the Lewis and the Maxim.

I'm really not sure of the point of the comment. I may be off a bit here but of the people that I know who shoot full auto's none of them reload for them. Forty yrs ago in my IPSC days someone related a story to me of an UZI, reloads, and a squib. It ended badly.

I think most of us realize that the belt has served no real purpose since the bottlenecked cartridge design was developed, but by and large many of the chamberings that are designed on the belted cases are far more common and available than some of their unbelted equivelants.

 

[shoot4fun]

I stay away from belted mags myself.

You like your brass to wear saggy pants?

 

[0.1 Aggregate]

Just off of the top of my head the Gatling gun shot 45-70. I'm sure there were a few more in there between the 1860s and the introduction of the Lewis and the Maxim….

Someone doesn’t know the difference between a rimmed case and a belted case….







.

 

[shoot4fun]

I doubt we will ever see any new cartridge developed by the major manufactures on a belted case.
That being said, I will say I've been shooting 300WM for quite a number of years (and not just one or two rounds a year) and I really have no plans to move to the 300PRC or any Nosler named number. In fact, when this barrel quits shooting well enough to win (it has well over 1k rounds now) I have another waiting on the shelf. Life became a lot better (brass life) when I began using the Innovative Technologies Collet Die. I have Norma 300 WM brass that is ten years old. It is relegated to lighter loads now but still no sign of separation. The primer pockets are getting a little stretched out though.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

You like your brass to wear saggy pants?

Skinny jeans in the tall section- ultramag styles are the ticket for me for the big boys

 

[shoot4fun]

Skinny jeans in the tall section- ultramag styles are the ticket for me for the big boys

Go big or go home.
300 NMIMP and a 338LM for the big boomers.

 

[XTR]

Someone doesn’t know the difference between a rimmed case and a belted case….







.

What machine-gun or full auto type weapon used a belted case ?
Never saw one, with any belted/rim case and have shot many from 9mm to 50BMG.

my bold....

 

[Beiruty]

I size the 300WM and I use the collet die to squeeze back the bulge above the rim back into spec.
My Steyr SSG04 is 0.24 MOA rifle
My Savage EP 300 is also sub MOA rifle

Downside for the belted case:
1) Short case life 3-4 reloads.
2) Higher SD and ES than your little itsy bitsy 6mm cases.

 

[6bra1k]

lots of the people above seem to have issues with a 300 win mag,
i have 3
a mk13 navy SEAL SNIPER rifle, 230 smk at 2800 plus/230 berger at 2900
a br heavy gun, 210 bergers....bbl is starting to show wear
single shot 40x
sort brass, size and add a collet sizer for the belt area
shoot very well, lapua and several other top names now have brass
BUT a 300 wsm will get close with less powder, and easier to size brass
IF YOU CAN GET DECENT BRASS. my opinion is average brass quality is holding back the 300 wsm
ADG may fix that this month

 

[Murray Brook]

I own and load for 5 belted mag rounds. Once you get your die set up right to headspace off the shoulder with appx .002-.003 shoulder bump the case life has been as good as any other cartridge I load for. Of course it also depends on brass quality and how hot you run the loads.