I started reloading about six months ago. I use Imperial Dry Neck Lube before seating bullets because I saw someone doing it and though “couldn’t hurt” but always wondered if it was a waste of time. Last time I was making ammo for my 7-08 I forgot to add it on first handful of rounds. I tried shooting it yesterday for one 5 shot group expecting same result as rest, but it was as much, much worse. However, it could also have been my shooting, though it would have been a very bad collection of shots. So my question: could it really make that much of a difference? I am surprised and curious. Thanks.
Beginner’s question re: bullet seating and neck lube
- Thread starter jhsjhs
- Start date
TheOtherZilla
Pull my finger
I have never used neck lube for bullet seating. As far as I know I have had no problems. I barely use any for resizing. And then I wipe out the inside of the neck because powder sticks to the lube.
In my opinion, unless you're loading clean brass with tight neck tension, there's no need to lube necks. I've used lube when brass was freshly annealed, and necks were clean and dry making for shoulder collapse during bullet seating. In that case, I found the BB's and dry lube to be insufficient and had to lube with a Q-Tip dipped in moly to prevent ruining the case. That was in a 338LM.
For once (or more) shot brass with powder residue in the necks, the graphite in the residue is usually sufficient.
For once (or more) shot brass with powder residue in the necks, the graphite in the residue is usually sufficient.
If you "wet-clean" your brass, as in "sonic cleaning", where the carbon in the neck is removed, I would always use it. If you have virgin brass and you are NOT fireforming into another case, (i.e. making an Ackley or making Dasher brass etc..) I would always use it. Other than that, the carbon in the neck of a fired case acts as a lubricant and it quite sufficient for consistent bullet seating. If you have say a .284 that you are using for competition, and have virgin brass that will be used in a "straight" .284 chamber, anneal the virgin cases, run them thru a mandrel and use your dry neck lube and you will get excellent results!
RegionRat
Gold $$ Contributor
I think you can see you asked one of "those questions". The kind of question where the answers you get sound like they conflict, and very little makes sense when you are done reading all the responses....
There are two separate discussions with "lube in necks" with different contexts. One is for tooling and processing, the other is for load recipe as in seated bullets.
Some of the reasons for the wild differences of opinion have to do with internal ballistics and how sensitive a particular context is to neck tension, and also this topic can get into the long term stability of storage and the bullets sticking or galling.
For the same reasons you can hear controversy with annealing and neck tension, you will hear controversy with lubrication and neck tension. There isn't a one size fits all answer. I will add that this isn't what I call a 100 level topic and is best left for once a reloader feels they are ready for accuracy work. But that is just my opinion and not worth a debate.
You will find that only you can answer if your rig and ammo combination requires extra steps to achieve the performance you want. That is not to say your question isn't an excellent one, but to say that with questions like these you must get ready to hear some very strong and conflicting opinions.
My advice is, don't stop trying and learn as much as you can by research. Be prepared to answer your questions by testing yourself. When it comes to neck lube, graphite and MoS2 can be controversial and there are many methods and techniques that compound the problem of setting up your own testing. Careful observation of bullet seating, chronographing, performance testing, etc., all take time and money. Sometimes, you will find that with sporting guns, the general answers not as useful as they are with match guns. I have guns and recipes that I can demonstrate benefit from graphite in the necks, and others where I can show it makes no difference. Good Luck and don't give up.
There are two separate discussions with "lube in necks" with different contexts. One is for tooling and processing, the other is for load recipe as in seated bullets.
Some of the reasons for the wild differences of opinion have to do with internal ballistics and how sensitive a particular context is to neck tension, and also this topic can get into the long term stability of storage and the bullets sticking or galling.
For the same reasons you can hear controversy with annealing and neck tension, you will hear controversy with lubrication and neck tension. There isn't a one size fits all answer. I will add that this isn't what I call a 100 level topic and is best left for once a reloader feels they are ready for accuracy work. But that is just my opinion and not worth a debate.
You will find that only you can answer if your rig and ammo combination requires extra steps to achieve the performance you want. That is not to say your question isn't an excellent one, but to say that with questions like these you must get ready to hear some very strong and conflicting opinions.
My advice is, don't stop trying and learn as much as you can by research. Be prepared to answer your questions by testing yourself. When it comes to neck lube, graphite and MoS2 can be controversial and there are many methods and techniques that compound the problem of setting up your own testing. Careful observation of bullet seating, chronographing, performance testing, etc., all take time and money. Sometimes, you will find that with sporting guns, the general answers not as useful as they are with match guns. I have guns and recipes that I can demonstrate benefit from graphite in the necks, and others where I can show it makes no difference. Good Luck and don't give up.
New cases or cases that have been pin tumbled get graphite lube inside the necks at my house.
I can definitely tell the difference in seating pressure consistency when I graphite the necks. 1st firing for me is mainly for fire forming, after that I just run with the carbon from firing.
I can definitely tell the difference in seating pressure consistency when I graphite the necks. 1st firing for me is mainly for fire forming, after that I just run with the carbon from firing.
Wet tumble and no lube for me. Have seen no difference on paper so it was easy to drop another step from my process.
jackieschmidt
Gold $$ Contributor
I never tumble or clean brass and have never used neck lube.
untill I read thread, I did not know shooters used neck lube.
untill I read thread, I did not know shooters used neck lube.
I saw little difference when I experimented with lubes as far as velocity consistency. I compared graphite to lanolin, lubed bullets with wax before seating, applied lanolin to the inside of necks with a Q tip and dipped cases into the graphite, shot them bare naked and saw little change in velocity ES and SD statistics.
On paper my best groups/targets seem to be shot with bare naked necks sized so that I get .003 - .004 neck expansion after seating a bullet. For whatever reason my rifles and barrels tend to like the bullets to be held tight. Even the new 30 Grendel I am messing with seems to prefer a lot of neck tension. I have used bushings that gave me .001, .002, and .003 compression and the .003 compression shoots best in that rifle.
Like other posters said, experiment and see what works for you and your rifles
On paper my best groups/targets seem to be shot with bare naked necks sized so that I get .003 - .004 neck expansion after seating a bullet. For whatever reason my rifles and barrels tend to like the bullets to be held tight. Even the new 30 Grendel I am messing with seems to prefer a lot of neck tension. I have used bushings that gave me .001, .002, and .003 compression and the .003 compression shoots best in that rifle.
Like other posters said, experiment and see what works for you and your rifles
If you wet tumble or sonic clean it removes the carbon inside the case neck.
And powdered graphite is nothing more than finely ground carbon.
So now below you have carbon plus a lot of ceramic balls, mind if I dunk?
I always do the neck first in the dry lube then the Imperial wax on the case body last, just the opposite of the video. I may be wrong, but you may pick up a ceramic ball on the wax if you do it that way.If you wet tumble or sonic clean it removes the carbon inside the case neck.
And powdered graphite is nothing more than finely ground carbon.
So now below you have carbon plus a lot of ceramic balls, mind if I dunk?
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The vast majority of reloading manuals tell you to wipe the neck and shoulder off before sizing. The last thing I do is wipe the neck and shoulder off after dipping in the graphite powder. This keeps the outside of the neck from turning black from the graphite powder.
Another simple solution is to use Hornady One Shot and making sure the inside of the necks are sprayed.
Efficient Big-Batch Case Lubrication — Best Methods
https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2020/06/efficient-big-batch-case-lubrication-best-methods/
Anytime you feel a lot of resistance on the upstroke (expander ball moving back up through the neck) you are stretching the neck and shoulder forward. If you measure the case base to shoulder datum before and after, you'll quickly see just how much your length varies due to this effect.
On dies where I am using an expander ball, I first group all the cases together and then spray One-Shot into the mouths of the cases. A couple of blasts from a foot away and from different angles seems to work fine.
Powder will tend to stick in the neck sometimes after using One Shot, just knock them down, and bullet seating will be slightly better. When seating a boat tail bullet with a kernel of powder stuck in the neck, the kernel can become trapped between the bullet and neck wall creating a bulge in the brass which may prevent chambering.
Straightshooter1
Gold $$ Contributor
I've found I get the same effects when using a Lee Collet Die where it squeezed the neck against the mandrel to reduce the neck size from it's fired size. And that's why I always bump the shoulder after neck sizing to get the headspace I'm after.
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