Bartlein 5R or standard 4 groove in .284 (8.5twist)?

[ShootDots]

Ben,
If memory serves, Samuel Hall is a very good and well known 600 yard BR shooter. I am pretty sure he was asking for opinions from his select few BR peers who have shot both 6's & 7mm's.

None the less thanks for the kind words.... but remember when you have shot as long as I have you are bound to win a few here and there. I only shoot 2-3 matches a year and I am finding it harder every year to win against you younger new guys. Hope to see you at Phoenix in October at the FCN's.

Yes Sam is a very well renowned BenchRest shooter. His acumen with a Dasher is well accounted for. BUT the reason I even answered was because there are so few Benchrest shooters out there using the 7mm, that I thought I might be of some help. But there is no doubt that you have shot some "world class" groups at 1000 and so I am sure he would value your opinion. I am glad you chimed in.

As far as Phoenix goes, I am not one to traverse the country anymore in a vehicle. And with the record flying has at this moment in time, I dang sure 'taint going to fly! So I will stick with the places around here within a 5 hour or less drive.. Maybe one day you could make it to Bayou Rifles! If you could and if you win the match(s), I would be honored to buy you a Burger and a Beer at the Burger Barn, where we all go afterward to rehash why we lost! LOL!!!

 

[SHall]

Thanks guys, this is kind of helpful info I was looking for! I apologise for my chose of words "select few" shooter. I just figured there would be very few shooters that had real world exerience with both a 5R and standard 4g barrels in the 284 Win in 8.5 -9 twist shooting 180g VLD type bullets at 1000 yards. That is what I meant by "select few". I did not want the post bogged down with technical info and BC comparisons people have read . What looks good on paper lots of the time does not pan out in the field. Thanks again for your replys. This .284 thing has got me pumped up ready to give it a go! Samuel Hall

 

[lrgoodger]

I will be one of those select few very soon. I've been through two Bartlein 5R, one of which simply would not shoot on a competitive level. The other one did but was intermittent. I had trouble with both scopes I used on it, so I don't know how much was scope problems. I did manage to kill a prairie dog at a mile with it during one of it's rare spells of consistency.

I'm chambering a 4 groove Kreiger 8.75 twist next week. I've had at least one 284 Shehane shooter tell me they were doing better for him than the 5Rs. We'll see.

 

[thomasholbrook43]

Sam both are great barrels. I have shot both in 284 shehane. My choice would go krieger 8.5 4 groove then bartlien next. I have four shehane barrels and the two kriegers seem to work just a little better. But as you know there is always that hummer barrel . Well also keep your node in the 2830-2850 range. That seems to be where the 180 hyhbrids like to be. Hope this helps you out.

 

[FrankG]

To Sam, Larry and everyone else......I'll tell you my personal feelings on the grooves. The style and number of grooves for the most in terms of accuracy don't mean Sxxx! I've shot 2 groove, we've made 3 groove for 6ppc bench shooters, I've shot 4 groove, conventional 5 groove on my 6ppc bench gun, 5R, 6 groove, and 8 groove barrels in calibers from .20cal. up to .338 and for all practical purposes I don't see a difference accuracy wise. What I do like about the 5R rifling is the odd number of lands/grooves don't directly oppose one another vs. a even groove barrel (this also doesn't apply to a 3 groove barrel per say depending on the groove width etc....in a 3 groove you usually have a portion of the other land opposing the other) back to the 5R by the lands not directly opposing one another I feel it helps distort/upset the bullet jacket less. To me this helps fight bullet failure which is more of a problem in the smaller calibers like 6mm and .224cal. Seems the 6.5mm and up it's not as big of a issue.

Some say the 5R clean easier? I say your cleaning two things. Copper from the jackets and carbon fouling. From a carbon fouling stand point I might agree with this as the patch isn't necessarily trying to get down into the corner of the groove on barrels with conventional rifling (standard 4 groove, 5 groove (not 5R) 6 groove etc...) but from a copper fouling stand point I don't see a difference. To me it goes back to the quality of the barrel and steel and the barrel maker paying attention to making a good stick more than anything else!

Some say if you want hard core accuracy go with conventional rifling? I don't necessarily agree but I will say the 6ppc benchguns don't like the 5R rifling. Why? The short jacket bullets I feel because they don't have a lot of bearing surface don't get driven good enough by the rifling. They will shoot upper .2's to a flat .3 but that is about all you will get out of them and in the short range bench world a .2 isn't going to win. So I only recommend the conventional rifling (regardless of the number of grooves). My 6ppc has a conventional 5 groove barrel and last time I shot it with 105 rounds on it with out cleaning it agg'd a .177" at a 100 yards for five, 5 shot groups. The smallest group was a .098" if I recall correctly. Now you take a 6mm shooter shooting say a 6 Creedmoor etc...with 105-115gr. bullets and I don't see a difference accuracy wise. I was just shooting my 6 Creedmoor yesterday at the range. If you drive it right it gives you 1/4moa and it's set up as a tactical bolt gun and I was shooting off the bench with a bipod. That barrel has the 5R rifling.

My next 6mm barrel I'm going to chamber in 6 Dasher but the gun will be primarily a tactical bolt gun set up if it feeds o.k. out of the mags (got to play with the feeding and testing before I do it) and haven't decided if it's going to be a 4 groove or a 5R as of yet. If I was going to set it up as a 600 benchgun I would go with a conventional 4 groove but wouldn't hesitate with a 5R in that application but for the tactical bolt gun it will be 5R most likely.

Staying on the 6mm for another quick note.....I will only run the .237" bores anymore. The .236"'s in my opinion your asking for bullet failure problems. Why? One we don't make the bullets and I know the jacket thickness can vary and with a .236" bore barrel the rifling will cut deeper into the jacket and or leave more of a stress point on the jacket. If a guy insists on a .236" bore barrel as we do offer them I strongly suggest the 5R. I've had the problems with bullets blowing up in 6mm and I did trace it back to the lot of bullets being the problem more than anything else but the tighter bore isn't going to help at all and will work against you.

Twist on the 7mm? My .284win. F-Class open gun is a 5R and 1-9. I can clean any target with it if I do my part. My next barrel mostly just because I'm going to bump the twist up to a 1-8.5 but again the 1-9 is fine.

Larry and Sam.....both of you guys are excellent shooters! I hate to run up against you guys in a match regardless of the stick that is on your gun but I would have fun shooting against ya!

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[butchlambert]

There you go! A good barrel is where you find it. Doesn't matter the shape or number of lands and grooves.

 

[bsumoba]

do they make a 1:9 twist 5R gain groove to 5 groove conventional ? ;D

i'm kidding by the way! LOL

I like 5R for everything I shoot