I've got a 260 Rem VLS that fouls like no other rifle I've seen. Shots 2-9 shoot some awesome groups, but shortly after that they open up considerably. And that's where the fun begins. I have never had patches come out blue for so long afterwards. I can usually clean 4-5 other rifles in the same time it takes me to clean this one. I'd like to think that the rifle has less than 1,000 rounds down the tube, but I'm curious if it will ever get better on it's own after time, or only worse?
Barrel Fouling, does it ever end?
- Thread starter Marksman
- Start date
Welcome to the world of factory barrels. I had a Rem 700 BDL Varmint in a 6mm Rem that was exactly as you described. It was a copper mine every time I cleaned it. You could feel the roughness with a tight patch. Dang gun still shot sub-1' groups all day long.
Some barrels are just rougher that others. You might want to lap it. I did that with my latest Rem 700 VS 308 before I even fired the first shot. I used J-B paste on a very tight jap. I use a rod stop to prevent the jag from exiting the barrel,trying not to mess up the crown). I put a dab of JB on the patch and do 10 strokes. I pull the patch, turn it over and do 10 more strokes. I repeat this for a total of 1000 strokes, cleaning with solvent after each 100. Yes I said 1000. Then I cleaned well and try and feel for rough spots. If I have them I try to short-stroke that area. Doesn't take that long once you get a rythum going. I have done this to half dozen factory tubes. Best success with was a Shaw 22-250 barrel that fowled very bad. Accuracy was terrible after 10-15 shots. After the JB paste treatment, it really improved and cleanup took a 1/4 of the time.
As an alternative you might consider something like the Tubbs bore polisher with the sandpaper bullets. ,Sorry that is how I think of them). I have heard mixed stories of success with that and similar systems. I guess the best way to lap would be to pour a lead slug and embed the polishing compound on that like the custom barrel makers. My factory barrel clean up good enough after the JB treatment.
The cleanup alone is enough of a reason to shot a custom barrel for me. Couple of wet patches with Butches Bore Shine, one wet brush with 6-10 strokes, and 3 dry patches and it looks like new.
By the way, if you ever look at the barrel with a bore scope, you will really find out if you are cleaning you barrel..... and just how rough the factory tubes are.
Luck, tiny
Some barrels are just rougher that others. You might want to lap it. I did that with my latest Rem 700 VS 308 before I even fired the first shot. I used J-B paste on a very tight jap. I use a rod stop to prevent the jag from exiting the barrel,trying not to mess up the crown). I put a dab of JB on the patch and do 10 strokes. I pull the patch, turn it over and do 10 more strokes. I repeat this for a total of 1000 strokes, cleaning with solvent after each 100. Yes I said 1000. Then I cleaned well and try and feel for rough spots. If I have them I try to short-stroke that area. Doesn't take that long once you get a rythum going. I have done this to half dozen factory tubes. Best success with was a Shaw 22-250 barrel that fowled very bad. Accuracy was terrible after 10-15 shots. After the JB paste treatment, it really improved and cleanup took a 1/4 of the time.
As an alternative you might consider something like the Tubbs bore polisher with the sandpaper bullets. ,Sorry that is how I think of them). I have heard mixed stories of success with that and similar systems. I guess the best way to lap would be to pour a lead slug and embed the polishing compound on that like the custom barrel makers. My factory barrel clean up good enough after the JB treatment.
The cleanup alone is enough of a reason to shot a custom barrel for me. Couple of wet patches with Butches Bore Shine, one wet brush with 6-10 strokes, and 3 dry patches and it looks like new.
By the way, if you ever look at the barrel with a bore scope, you will really find out if you are cleaning you barrel..... and just how rough the factory tubes are.
Luck, tiny
Watch this.... you'll see where the problem lies.
zullo74 is right.
I had a FN Hernstal in a 308 that was just as you described. I did everything, even finally did the tubb final finish bullets. After that got the same results and probably a wore out throat. I bought a new barrel and never looked back. I wish I had a borescope so I could have seen it close up.
I think if I had it to do all over again I would have sent it back to the manufacturer and tried to get them to re barrel it.
Tim
I had a FN Hernstal in a 308 that was just as you described. I did everything, even finally did the tubb final finish bullets. After that got the same results and probably a wore out throat. I bought a new barrel and never looked back. I wish I had a borescope so I could have seen it close up.
I think if I had it to do all over again I would have sent it back to the manufacturer and tried to get them to re barrel it.
Tim
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
Marksman, there are a couple of things that you can do to help out.
First of all, watch the video by Lilja barrels. As bad as that Rem looked, Savages are worse.
In your 260, you are probably shooting 140's to get that kind of copper fouling. Change to a 129g Hornady Sp flat base, less bearing surface, great deer to carabou bullet.
Todd Kindler of Small Caliber news makes a wax that you can coat your bullets with that has no adverse effect on the barrel like moly. In addition to reducing copper fouling, it also stabalizes standard deviation. You will have to work up a load with waxed bullets vs naked bullets.
Second, using a new bronze bristle brush, brush your bore 25 strokes with JB compound. Clean every 20 shots with the JB in this fashon, it will help smooth out some of the roughness.
Montana Extreme Copper Killer will remove 80% or more of the copper fouling in 15 minutes, and the remainder on the second application using saturated patches.
If you want to get aggressive, then use the Montana Extreme Copper killer on the montana extreme plastic brushes.
Your barrel will smooth out after 600 rounds or so, but it will still copper if you use long bullets with long bearing surfaces.
If you want to soak your barrel over night instead of scrubbing, then there are two products that I have used that are extremely good, Montana Extreme solvent, and KG-12. The KG-12 is a non toxic, non amonia base product. The Montana Extreme products are Oil based vs water based like Sweets 7.62 copper solvent.
email me if you need further help
First of all, watch the video by Lilja barrels. As bad as that Rem looked, Savages are worse.
In your 260, you are probably shooting 140's to get that kind of copper fouling. Change to a 129g Hornady Sp flat base, less bearing surface, great deer to carabou bullet.
Todd Kindler of Small Caliber news makes a wax that you can coat your bullets with that has no adverse effect on the barrel like moly. In addition to reducing copper fouling, it also stabalizes standard deviation. You will have to work up a load with waxed bullets vs naked bullets.
Second, using a new bronze bristle brush, brush your bore 25 strokes with JB compound. Clean every 20 shots with the JB in this fashon, it will help smooth out some of the roughness.
Montana Extreme Copper Killer will remove 80% or more of the copper fouling in 15 minutes, and the remainder on the second application using saturated patches.
If you want to get aggressive, then use the Montana Extreme Copper killer on the montana extreme plastic brushes.
Your barrel will smooth out after 600 rounds or so, but it will still copper if you use long bullets with long bearing surfaces.
If you want to soak your barrel over night instead of scrubbing, then there are two products that I have used that are extremely good, Montana Extreme solvent, and KG-12. The KG-12 is a non toxic, non amonia base product. The Montana Extreme products are Oil based vs water based like Sweets 7.62 copper solvent.
email me if you need further help
I had a Shilen select match barrel that was chambered in 6.5-284 and it was the worst fouling barrel I have ever owned. I could get more than 10 or 12 shots out of it, but in a match where you may be shooting 60 to 80 shots a day for score it just wouldn't work. As a result I won't ever shoot another 6.5 caliber barrel. I don't think it was anything associated with the barrel,it was pretty slick) I think it's a problem with the 6.5 caliber. I know a number of people who have copper fouling problems with the 6.5 calibers in different after market barrels and some have to clean between relays to keep going. I see no need to put up with this problem when you can have a 7mm or 30 caliber that you can shoot all day without having to 'baby' it along..
boltman13
Gold $$ Contributor
My new Hart barrel in 6.5 Creedmore cleans up very easy. After 15 shots, 2 Butches soaked patches, a dry patch, about 20 strokes with a nylon brush and Butches, let sit for about 5 minutes then 2 dry patches, and I'm good to go. Haven't gone beyond 15 shots before cleaning yet but will be in the future.
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