Barrel fitting

[Cloudrepair]

It seems to me a few of you guys have gone to the Gordy method from the throat and muzzle method.

The question why, have any of you tested both methods to the best of your ability and found it better?

Myself I like to know where the muzzle is pointing yes you can time them but you never know exacly I mean each barrel is going to have a different wandering bore.
You can say this one is .010 high(timed to 12) that one is .005 but always different.

 

[holstil]

I've heard it said before people like to know where the muzzle is pointing. In reality I doubt anyone does or that it matters. I say this because barrels are not straight (some very good). I don't think anybody is indicating at muzzle then say 3" deeper into the muzzle to know where the muzzle is really pointing.
I like to indicate throat and muzzle and let the drill and reamer follow the bore.
I like to put the mean wobble at BDC or TDC.

Different strokes for different strokers

 

[Cloudrepair]

I've heard it said before people like to know where the muzzle is pointing. In reality I doubt anyone does or that it matters. I say this because barrels are not straight (some very good). I don't think anybody is indicating at muzzle then say 3" deeper into the muzzle to know where the muzzle is really pointing.
I like to indicate throat and muzzle and let the drill and reamer follow the bore.
I like to put the mean wobble at BDC or TDC.

Different strokes for different strokers

Good point
Have you found that top or bottom dead center makes a difference other then letting the arc go where it lands or ends up?

 

[hoz53]

It seems to me a few of you guys have gone to the Gordy method from the throat and muzzle method.

The question why, have any of you tested both methods to the best of your ability and found it better?

Myself I like to know where the muzzle is pointing yes you can time them but you never know exacly I mean each barrel is going to have a different wandering bore.
You can say this one is .010 high(timed to 12) that one is .005 but always different.

And if you indicate the muzzle in are you bending/flexing the barrel to do it?

 

[Cloudrepair]

And if you indicate the muzzle in are you bending/flexing the barrel to do it?

Another good point
I use radius screws and pivot pads at both ends of the barrel.

 

[hoz53]

Another good point
I use radius screws and pivot pads at both ends of the barrel.

ok thanks for that info

 

[Cloudrepair]

ok thanks for that info

This is the setup I use
Just turned a full radius on the 3/8-24 screws and a ball mill for the pads works very good. A little grease to help pivot and hold in place for setup.
I use the same screws in action trueing fixture.
When I get around to it I'll make some steel pads, I'm using brass right now.

 

[hoz53]

This is the setup I use
Just turned a full radius on the 3/8-24 screws and a ball mill for the pads works very good. A little grease to help pivot and hold in place for setup.
I use the same screws in action trueing fixture.
When I get around to it I'll make some steel pads, I'm using brass right now.

thanks for the pics. arent you still pushing the barrel over if youre indicating it in with those on the outboard end? and if the other end swivels so youre not stressing the barrel is it then out of alignment?

 

[Cloudrepair]

thanks for the pics. arent you still pushing the barrel over if youre indicating it in with those on the outboard end? and if the other end swivels so youre not stressing the barrel is it then out of alignment?

Yes I have a indicator on each end and go back and forth till both are in.
Then it is very secure also.

 

[hoz53]

Yes I have a indicator on each end and go back and forth till both are in.
Then it is very secure also.

Ok sounds good- thanks for the explanation-- do you indicate the bore at the chamber area and the outside of the barrel at the muzzle? and do you use one indicator at one spot on each end of the barrel?

 

[Cloudrepair]

Ok sounds good- thanks for the explanation-- do you indicate the bore at the chamber area and the outside of the barrel at the muzzle? and do you use one indicator at one spot on each end of the barrel?

I use three .0001 indicators and another .00005 at times.
the tall noga base will reach the muzzle easy to go off the last .500 of the bore. And i indicate off the projected throat.

 

[hoz53]

I use three .0001 indicators and another .00005 at times.
the tall noga base will reach the muzzle easy to go off the last .500 of the bore. And i indicate off the projected throat.

I use three .0001 indicators and another .00005 at times.
the tall noga base will reach the muzzle easy to go off the last .500 of the bore. And i indicate off the projected throat.

i really apprecaiate all the info. i like the idea of using the bore to indicate off at the muzzle end. i think some people indicate off the barrel and i cant wrap my head around that as i dont believe the bore is running true with the outside of the barrel to often. sorry i dont have any info for you on wat method is best as im pretty new at this but thanks again

 

[hoz53]

I like the way you think.
I think it's best to use the bore and do so myself. However, I think a couple thou in error at muzzle on a rifle barrel can/will easily be lost or not seen at breach due to tooling flex and or run out through the bore. If you single point the bore at any time, things change a bit (that matter to me). Because I indicate at projected throat and muzzle, I use a pusher, this allows the tail of my tooling to remain inline with the tip. The very straight barrels I indicate the beginning of breach and muzzle and let the tip of drill and reamer do what they like to do.

The pad setup looks good. Softer material on the tip of your pads may offer a better bite. if you ever need to work between centers, things could get tight on a sporter barrel. Maybe make smaller diameter pads. I just use a thick copper or alum wire between barrel and jaws. Brass tips on my spider.

Thanks and thanks for that info-- it is helpful

 

[butchlambert]

I use setscrews on both ends with copper tips. The notch out of this cathead is for balance, LOL. I guess I didn't know anybody that indicated the OD of the muzzle, except after installing a muzzle break and to turn the break OD to match the barrel OD. If you use copper pointed pins on both ends, you ain't gonna bend the barrel.
Myself and a few other smiths played with the Gordy method for a while and we didn't see any advantage to it. That is my opinion.

 

[Shawnba67]

If you use copper pointed pins on both ends, you ain't gonna bend the barrel.

Does the pin size or torque apllied to them affect this statement at all? Say a 3/8x24 copper tipped bolt?
Sometimes they get pretty snug sometimes fighting that last tenth!
Thank you.

 

[butchlambert]

My setscrews are 1/2X20. I've never felt them pinching the barrel when pinning them. I have Deltronic pins in sets of 25 for each caliber size that I chamber. The are in .0001 increents.

 

[Shawnba67]

I may have mis stated my question. On bending the barrel, I was meaning flexing it. Forcing the indicated points into alignment while the in between parts bows. Were you saying that cant happen with the copper tipped bolts?

 

[butchlambert]

I may have mis stated my question. On bending the barrel, I was meaning flexing it. Forcing the indicated points into alignment while the in between parts bows. Were you saying that cant happen with the copper tipped bolts?

Picture the setup in your mind. Forcing it? You don't need a cheater bar to indicate it in.

 

[Shawnba67]

Picture the setup in your mind. Forcing it? You don't need a cheater bar to indicate it in.

I had read several posts where guys seem to say that several,or at least all the ways except the one they are touting, to indicate a barrel cause the barrel to bend itself into alignment.
Im currently at the dangerous point of my learning. I can easily see how easy it is to bend/bow a barrel by putting an indictor on it and pushing with my thumb. I however cant get my head around all the ways to do or not do it!
I thank you for any help

 

[butchlambert]

I had read several posts where guys seem to say that several,or at least all the ways except the one they are touting, to indicate a barrel cause the barrel to bend itself into alignment.
Im currently at the dangerous point of my learning. I can easily see how easy it is to bend/bow a barrel by putting an indictor on it and pushing with my thumb. I however cant get my head around all the ways to do or not do it!
I thank you for any help

I'm pretty sure you do not have my setup pictured. Every time you adjust the opposite end, the barrel pivots on the copper tips. I understand that a chuck with jaws will bend one.
Get your mind around the barrel pivoting on the copper tips against them being held in a chuck with jaws.