I just encounterd the first bad primers of my reloading "LIFE"...started reloading in 1960,44yrs) ...wow time flies..I have a 6mmBR 8" twist so I am shooting bullets form 62 to 108gr. and have been using many different types of powder vs. what I have used in my 14" twist BR's over the last 25yrs...some folks have reccommended CCI primers so I decided to try some 450's ...I have used Fed. primers of all types most of my life with "ZERO" problems,,,well my luck has just changed ...in the last few days I have loaded 56 ctgs. with these 450 primers and have had TWO missfires...I called CCI in Lewiston ID this am. and told them of my delima...their "technician" proceeded to tell me that either the primer was seated "too deep" or "too shallow" and that I should try and fix my reloading problem...I told him I was going to fix my reloading problem "I will never buy and CCI primers again" ....he didn't ask my name,address,phone,e-mail,etc...he didn't even want to send me a hat made in Vietnam,,just told me that they didn't have any problem yet with that lot,G13K) ...I asked if my situation wasn't a problem then what was ...got silence on the other end..I will post a pic. of the primers later and maby someone on here will be able to figger it out ...it seems like I know less every day...I was using these primers in cases that have been loaded 7-8times..the powder was N-540 and the bullets were 80gr. Fowler..if that makes any diff..Hope no one else suffers the empty feeling of pulling the trigger on a good group or score,or God forbid that BIG BUCK) and hearing that thud of the fireing pin and then NUTHIN!! Roger
BAD CCI 450 Primers...
- Thread starter expiper
- Start date
I feel yo pain.....I have had misfires with CCI's fer years. I quit useing them, then decided to try em again to see if I could get the primer flow and peircing I get when tying to hod rod my 17's, 20's and 6mm!! Was tryn to fireform a 20 ppc case last week on a crow.....you guessed it.........click!! This was in a new Bat SV action. Like you I use Fed. 205-210's.....never have a failure.SnakeEye
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Only duds I've had in rifle ctgs. were both R 7-1/2s, both during the same offhand match in a Regional Championship HP match. Only bad side effect was that it showed me I'd developed a nasty flinch - that was during the 2000 season, and I'm still using 7-1/2s, because they're good primers. In over 100K rounds of 45 ACP & 38 Super ammo loaded on Dillons for IPSC, I've had two duds - both WLPs.
expiper
The cups of CCI 450 primers are the thickest of the common small rifle primers, and are the same thickness as the very tough CCI BR4's. While I have not performed testing on the appropriate hardness testing equipment, judging from primer condition under varying load conditions with many cartridges, my personal observation is that the cup material on CCI primers also appears to be significantly harder than that used in most other primers. What this means is that while CCI 450 and BR4 primers will withstand greater pressures before cratering and piercing, a greater force may be required to ignite these particular primers.,FYI, I have a 6BR that pierces primers on any primer type except CCI BR4's.) If your rifle has any deficiency or weakness in the primer ignition system,weak spring, shortened firing pin extrusion, primers seated slightly deep etc. etc.), you may experience ignition problems with these primers that are not apparent using primers with a thinner cup and/or made of softer material. If CCI has no reported problems with that lot of primers, they are probably performing up to their normal specifications, and you simply have a system,rifle or cases) which produce a less-than-optimal striking force. You might want to check your primer seating depth,did you excessively "uniform" your primer pockets?) or consider a new firing pin spring.
I personally like the CCI primers and will convert all of my competition loads to CCI BR series primers for next year.
CraigK
The cups of CCI 450 primers are the thickest of the common small rifle primers, and are the same thickness as the very tough CCI BR4's. While I have not performed testing on the appropriate hardness testing equipment, judging from primer condition under varying load conditions with many cartridges, my personal observation is that the cup material on CCI primers also appears to be significantly harder than that used in most other primers. What this means is that while CCI 450 and BR4 primers will withstand greater pressures before cratering and piercing, a greater force may be required to ignite these particular primers.,FYI, I have a 6BR that pierces primers on any primer type except CCI BR4's.) If your rifle has any deficiency or weakness in the primer ignition system,weak spring, shortened firing pin extrusion, primers seated slightly deep etc. etc.), you may experience ignition problems with these primers that are not apparent using primers with a thinner cup and/or made of softer material. If CCI has no reported problems with that lot of primers, they are probably performing up to their normal specifications, and you simply have a system,rifle or cases) which produce a less-than-optimal striking force. You might want to check your primer seating depth,did you excessively "uniform" your primer pockets?) or consider a new firing pin spring.
I personally like the CCI primers and will convert all of my competition loads to CCI BR series primers for next year.
CraigK
I have had what I said where bad primers in all brands. in one of my guns I had a lot of pierced primers. I tried everything but still had problem and no loads not hot. sent my bolt to gre-tan and had bolt brushed and man problem solved.
shoot4fun
Gold $$ Contributor
I had two 6 Dasher rounds go click during the November LR BR match. They were loaded with CCI450 primers. My first reaction was embarrassed that I missed not getting powder in a case. After the second clicked I was really almost ready to just take my stuff and go home. Turned out both had ample powder and both primers had been struck well enough that they should have gone boom.
I'm going to look at the lot number when I go to my shop but just would be too much coincidence that we would have the same lot. I've had these a while.
I'm going to look at the lot number when I go to my shop but just would be too much coincidence that we would have the same lot. I've had these a while.
Forum Boss
Administrator
CCI 450s have harder-than-average cups -- that is well-known. I and others have used them with great success. You have to make sure your fire-control system is working properly (no drag on firing pin, proper spring tension).
That said, there can always be issues with any product. It may be wise to test a new lot of primers before loading up for a big match.
That said, there can always be issues with any product. It may be wise to test a new lot of primers before loading up for a big match.
I had almost the same situation but with rem 7 1/2 primers, called them and they basically didn't care. I can't imagine being the poor soul that has one not go off on dangerous game or a incredible once in a lifetime trophy, not to mention a world record group of sorts. I think in my experience i had about 4 not go off in 25...not good..haven't used them since...
Just imagine how we survived the flintlock days
I have had "problems" with CCI 250's, Wolf Performance L/R primers and Wolf Performance S/R AND S/R Magnum primers. Now to be very fair, the Wolf L/R primers were just ONE (1) 100 pack out of the 1000 case. The Wolf S/R and S/R Magnum's appear to be the entirety of the 2 cases! Not so, however, with the Large Rifle Wolf Primers.
It is my opinion that ANY and ALL primer manufacturers have, from time to time, made bad "batches", not necessarily ENTIRE lots of primers. I don't worry about such "failures".. I just rid myself of the "problem ones" and move on as if nothing ever happened. I have never had a situation that a different lot of primers were as bad as the lot that the problems arose from. I am quite sure that somewhere down the line from here, you may very well experience problems from another primer manufacturer in the future.. Hopefully not BUT I would not bet that I would not.
It is my opinion that ANY and ALL primer manufacturers have, from time to time, made bad "batches", not necessarily ENTIRE lots of primers. I don't worry about such "failures".. I just rid myself of the "problem ones" and move on as if nothing ever happened. I have never had a situation that a different lot of primers were as bad as the lot that the problems arose from. I am quite sure that somewhere down the line from here, you may very well experience problems from another primer manufacturer in the future.. Hopefully not BUT I would not bet that I would not.
I too had issues with CCI450's when I had my first 6BR barreled. I had probably 3-4 out of 20 rounds that failed to fire, primers were dented but didn't fire. I called CCI since I had bought a case of them. The tech was decent enough but had the audacity to tell me I was not seating the primers all the way in the pocket. I proceeded to let him know I had been reloading longer than he had been alive and I knew how to seat a primer. Turns out that I did and I didn't! I was using the RCBS primer tool I had used for years and the primers felt just fine to me. I finally decided to check the tool and since I had a new one I took the seating pins out and measured them. The one I had been using for years was shorter by a few thousandths! I used the pin from the new primer tool and damned if the primers that didn't seat down to the bottom of the cup. I switched to a K&M primer tool for seating the CCI primers and have not had a problem since. It was the combination of harder cup and lack of proper seating. I did call the CCI tech back and apologized for being an idiot.
GSpringer
GSpringer
Larryh128
Silver $$ Contributor
I got jaded by firing over 1/2 million 209 shotgun primers. Back 40 years ago, CCI was the only primer manufacturer that had top notch quality control. They were always the same size and very consistant batch to batch. The same couldn't be said of any of the other primer manufacturers. One primer would fall out & the next one needed to be crushed in. I tried a couple different primers when I first started loading metallics but quickly went back to CCI. The only failures that I have ever had were the result of a firing pin that was about .010 short. I did however see a failure to fire on a rem 9 1/2 only a week ago. That was in the new Rem muzzleloader that uses a primed case to ignite the pellets. After watching him seat his primers, I believe that it was operator error not the primer. He was seating the primer & then squeezing the priming tool so hard that his hands hurt after a few. We got that corrected.
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