A quick search shows:ShootDots said:
"Born to a Philadelphia family of means in 1877, Townsend Whelen was a thoughtful man with a talent for expression that has made him one of our most-quoted gun writers. My favorite succinct observation is, “Only accurate rifles are interesting.†A close second might be “The .30-06 is never a mistake.â€
bigedp51
BoydAllen said:
Dear Boyd Allen
On page 26 of the book below on Handloading for Competition Mr. Zediker states the follow in bold print.
"Benchrest is a sport not a doctrine" and I agree 100 percent.
Bottom line this forum covers all aspects of shooting and reloading, and if you have such high standards then go to Benchrest Central.
in a way, I find this event to be somewhat like the fellows who cheer when they get a pd at 1000= yards, even out to1400yds - lots of shots, many attempts, one pd,
consider the misses at 500, to get one off the mound.
the hits at 800-1000+ by snipers are more impressive as it is the first shot
a Confederate sniper took a 550 shot with a Whitworth and hit --first shot,
"John W. "Jack" Hinson, "Old Jack" (1807–1874) was a farmer in Stewart County, Tennessee who operated as a Confederate partisan sniper against Union forces in the Between-the-Rivers region of Tennessee and Kentucky during the American Civil War.
Hinson, a prosperous plantation owner of Scotch-Irish descent, was neutral at the outbreak of the war but took up arms after two of his sons were executed as suspected bushwhackers by Federal troops; their heads were cut off and stuck on the gate-posts to Hinson's home.[1] Hinson used a custom made 50 caliber 41-inch barrel Kentucky Long Rifle to target Union soldiers more than a half-mile away on land, transports, and gunboats along the Tennessee River and the Cumberland River, killing as many as a hundred. Hinson also served as a guide for Nathan Bedford Forrest in his assault on the Union supply center at Johnsonville, Tennessee in November 1864. He was the father of Robert Hinson, who served as the leader of a highly effective partisan band in the Between-the-Rivers region until his death in combat on September 18, 1863. Jack Hinson was never apprehended despite the commitment of elements of four Union regiments to pursue him, and survived the war, dying on 28 April 1874 (according to the 16 May 1874 Clarksville Weekly Chronicle, via the Dover Record) in the White Oak/Magnolia area of Houston county, Tennessee. He is buried in the family plot in the Cane Creek Cemetery (with a different birth year of 1793 and death year of 1873), just off White Oak road (near McKinnon, Tennessee). A marker was placed in the Boyd Cemetery far away to the North, in the Land-Between-the Lakes "
this is what it interesting - transports, gunboats, moving targets!!
Bob
consider the misses at 500, to get one off the mound.
the hits at 800-1000+ by snipers are more impressive as it is the first shot
a Confederate sniper took a 550 shot with a Whitworth and hit --first shot,
"John W. "Jack" Hinson, "Old Jack" (1807–1874) was a farmer in Stewart County, Tennessee who operated as a Confederate partisan sniper against Union forces in the Between-the-Rivers region of Tennessee and Kentucky during the American Civil War.
Hinson, a prosperous plantation owner of Scotch-Irish descent, was neutral at the outbreak of the war but took up arms after two of his sons were executed as suspected bushwhackers by Federal troops; their heads were cut off and stuck on the gate-posts to Hinson's home.[1] Hinson used a custom made 50 caliber 41-inch barrel Kentucky Long Rifle to target Union soldiers more than a half-mile away on land, transports, and gunboats along the Tennessee River and the Cumberland River, killing as many as a hundred. Hinson also served as a guide for Nathan Bedford Forrest in his assault on the Union supply center at Johnsonville, Tennessee in November 1864. He was the father of Robert Hinson, who served as the leader of a highly effective partisan band in the Between-the-Rivers region until his death in combat on September 18, 1863. Jack Hinson was never apprehended despite the commitment of elements of four Union regiments to pursue him, and survived the war, dying on 28 April 1874 (according to the 16 May 1874 Clarksville Weekly Chronicle, via the Dover Record) in the White Oak/Magnolia area of Houston county, Tennessee. He is buried in the family plot in the Cane Creek Cemetery (with a different birth year of 1793 and death year of 1873), just off White Oak road (near McKinnon, Tennessee). A marker was placed in the Boyd Cemetery far away to the North, in the Land-Between-the Lakes "
this is what it interesting - transports, gunboats, moving targets!!
Bob
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
Ed,
You would be the absolute last person that I would ask about what the proper topics for this forum is. It is not your site, and I have known the fellow that owns and edits it for many years. As as you may remember, it used to be called 6mmBR.com and was later was changed to Accurate shooter.com. Like I said, standards for what constitutes accuracy vary. Evidently your are lower than mine were, even before I had ever turned a neck or owned a benchrest rifle. The reason for my interest in Benchrest is that it is an excellent resource for those who pursue accuracy, whether they compete or not. To me, talking down about benchrest (as you have numerous times) is like talking down speed on a hot rodding site. It makes no sense.
You would be the absolute last person that I would ask about what the proper topics for this forum is. It is not your site, and I have known the fellow that owns and edits it for many years. As as you may remember, it used to be called 6mmBR.com and was later was changed to Accurate shooter.com. Like I said, standards for what constitutes accuracy vary. Evidently your are lower than mine were, even before I had ever turned a neck or owned a benchrest rifle. The reason for my interest in Benchrest is that it is an excellent resource for those who pursue accuracy, whether they compete or not. To me, talking down about benchrest (as you have numerous times) is like talking down speed on a hot rodding site. It makes no sense.
bigedp51
If it makes no sense to you Boyd Allen then you should think twice about telling people they have to ride in the back of the bus.
Benchrest is a sport and not a doctrine.
And the reason for this posting was to show you that Accurate Shooter was posting articles on shooting milsurp rifles.
Benchrest is a sport and not a doctrine.
And the reason for this posting was to show you that Accurate Shooter was posting articles on shooting milsurp rifles.
Not quite at 2,240 yards though!
On the wider accuracy topic, old military rifles are like everything else - there are very accurate, so-so accurate, and poor designs out there and within each model individual examples fall into each category. Since mainstream prone civilian shooting competition in Scandinavia, British Commonwealth countries and the US was based on service rifles for many generations (and continues in the US with the M16/AR-15), I don't see why an accuracy orientated forum would shun them, although its primary and overwhelming focus is rightly on rifles capable of far greater precision. The site managers recognise this with fairly frequent stories in the Daily Bulletin that cover topics such as US matches for recognised military sniper rifles, the M1 rifle and even the somewhat less than precision M1 carbine, pistol matches, and three gun competition including shotguns and so on.
I wouldn't like to say what level of precision the very best of the old military stuff with original barrels are capable of with good handloads, certainly under 1-MOA. If nothing else, relatively crude iron sights are a severe limitation, the Swiss straight-pulls being good examples of designs with this being the weakest link. I sometimes thought considering one or two rifles that I was lucky enough to own that some pre WW2 bolt-action rifles were over-specified, over-engineered, and presumably over-expensive given the actual use they were put to in combat.
Off the top I can think immediately of two top GB benchrest competitors who still compete on a regular basis in club 'Military Rifle' matches (with .30-06 M1917s) , and I would too if I could see anything of value through iron sights.
bigedp51
It is my understanding that after Boyd Allen insulted the British Enfield rifle that someone is looking for him.
God Save the Queen
God Save the Queen
It took them +50 shots to even hit the target which humors me how poor of precision those that were involved were capable of. That also proved out by the round counts how luck was a determining factor more so then a accuracy level, unless you feel a hit percentage of less then 5% of the time to be accuracy.
In many ways I can't help but think bigedp51's purpose to this thread is more of a tactic to belittle Boyd then anything else.
Philip
In many ways I can't help but think bigedp51's purpose to this thread is more of a tactic to belittle Boyd then anything else.
Philip
Boyd Allen has a lot of creditability in my opinion. He donates a lot to the accuracy game. Note his possible change of mind on digital vs balance beam scales. He updates and/or corrects his findings on equipment and techniques, and always notes the differences in short range vs long range.
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