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Armscor (A USA) anyone? ....might be surprised!

I'm brand new to this forum, my name is Chris, very nice to meet you all. I'm posting here because I've gotten very little feedback on other forums I belong to, so I thought I'd bring my thoughts here to see what folks in this community think.

I've come across a large lot of newer Armscor (A USA) brass. Not knowing much about it, I've started doing some testing to see what it's all about. I've been very, and pleasantly, surprised...so far.

Here's what I've learned thus far.

'Torture Testing 101': I've started to test the reloading limits of a 10 case sample. So far, only 5 firings, so not much to report here. I resized it, trimmed it to 1.750, and started loading/firing. Average case length stretch so far is averaging around .003 after 5 firings from a semi-auto (AR). No cracked necks, etc....but I wouldn't expect this yet. I plan to continue this testing as time allows...and will report back.

Case weights: A 10 case sample varies between 97.5 and 100.1 gr. Not super consistent....so this concerned me.

Web thickness: LC 12 averaged around .185. The Armscor, around .183. Pretty close, and again, surprising.

Now the interesting part: Case volume. I took a 10 case sample of the Armscor brass and a 10 case sample of LC 12 brass. Resized, trimmed to 1.750, weighed dry and then filled with water and weighed again. Here's what I found.

Armscor averaged 30.65 vs. LC 12 at 30.96. So the Armscor brass averages about .31gr smaller capacity.

The most interesting part of this was the consistency. The Armscor varied from 30.3-30.9, so a range of 0.6. The LC 12 varied from 30.4 to 31.4, so a range of 1.0.

Can this Armscor brass actually be comparable, and possibly more consistent than LC??

I'm having a hard time believing it, but wanted to share, and also ask if anyone else has tried this brass, or if anyone else has put it through the paces to see how it might measure up.

Hope to hear some feedback on this....I know it goes against convention, but that's why I'm testing it!! :)
 
Re: Armscor anyone? ....might be surprised!

i'm in the brass biz.
stuff marked armscor is almost always scrapped.
most pistol stuff marked a usa gets reused....resold wholesale or retail...
just my experience
close to the worst
 
Re: Armscor anyone? ....might be surprised!

stool,can you elaborate your findings on the armscor alittle so I can understand what is so bad about it as far as general use?Is it brittle or primer pockets are always loose or whatever?I think this might help the young man (op) with his questions alittle better.Welcome to the forum Chris.
 
Re: Armscor anyone? ....might be surprised!

i send compoments out to be loaded by commercial reloaders.

we have had issues with primer pockets..too small....smashed primers

so we now have to sort brass or expect losses....
45.and 9 for sure not sure on 38/380/40...
but rather than scrap ammo..we scrap brass

and 223
its just easier and cheaper to scrap just the brass than all 4 components
your mileage may vary
 
Re: Armscor anyone? ....might be surprised!

i have not had the problem with the a usa brass...so MAYBE they have fixed the issue
 
Re: Armscor anyone? ....might be surprised!

Thanks for the feedback folks!

In regards to primer pockets...this is one area I forgot to mention in the original post. The pockets have a slight ring around them, but do not actually appear to be crimped. I was able to prime them with CCI, Rem and Win primers with no problems. They're tight, but I didn't have any crushed primers or feed problems getting them in. The CCI (400) primers did seem to seat a bit higher than the Rem (7 1/2) or Win, but not to the point that I would consider them a 'high primer'. The Win primers seemed to seat the smoothest and deepest. After 5 firings (26.2gr Varget over hornady 55g FMJBT) the pockets are still tight.

I hope we can keep this conversation going. I know I'm flying in the face of convention here, but I have A LOT (6-7K) of this stuff, so for me at least it's worth doing the research and testing before I scrap it. I don't have much in it....so I'm not deeply invested....just would hate to see ANY good case die before its time!! :'(
 
Re: Armscor anyone? ....might be surprised!

BTW - Jon. I deeply appreciate the 'young man' comment. haven't been called THAT in a while!! ;D
 
Re: Armscor anyone? ....might be surprised!

As promised...I've continued to test the Armscor (A-USA) brass for the good of the order. And....I'm more confused than ever.

I pulled another 10-case sample of AUSA and LC12, FL resized and trimmed to 1.750, then measured case weight and capacity (water) again with the second sample. Results attached.

In sample #2, the AUSA brass is slightly less consistent in case weight (max spread 2.6gr vs LC12 at 1.9gr), and in case capacity is also less consistent with a max spread of 0.7gr vs LC12 at 0.4 gr.

Case capacity is also a bit smaller, 29.70 vs. 30.05, so on average 0.35gr smaller in capacity.

Still no updates on torture testing....been busy, and it's been raining, so I haven't been able to fire the sample cases to failure. Will report back once done.

While my results are a bit inconsistent with test sample #1 (which will lead to test sample #3)....I'm still of the mind that this stuff may be OK. The capacity is close to LC (0.35gr smaller, on average), and seems to vary by less than a grain (0.7) throughout the sample. For benchrest....maybe not, but for my purposes, I think this stuff may just be alright...
 

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Re: Armscor anyone? ....might be surprised!

What are you using it for? Service rifle? I don't see what the issue is, why don't you just use it?
 
Re: Armscor anyone? ....might be surprised!

I plan to use it....just doing the research because when I got it ( a lot of it) all I heard was, trash it.....armscor is scrap. I never found any data to support that..in fact, went specifically looking for data on this brass and couldn't find any. I enjoy the reloading end of this sport about as much as I do the shooting end of it, and I enjoy the study of internal ballistics, so it struck me as a fun, and possibly informative project to take something commonly considered scrap, and put it through the paces to see how it measures up. I suppose I'm one of those, 'hold my beer and watch this' kind of folks...: ) Seemed like a good challenge, so I decided to give it a go. I also thought it might be interesting enough to share...so I'm sharing it. Not sellin' snake oil or anything...just sharing as I try to fill a data gap in my own pursuits.

Happy Easter! Trails4u.
 
Re: Armscor anyone? ....might be surprised!

notice i said 2 things....armscor marked brass is not worth my time,
but a usa marked brass has been ok....( what i have used)

so while you title the subject as armscor...you are testing a usa.
 
Hi Stool;

A USA is the new Armscor headstamp. Part of the reason I'm doing the testing. Does new headstamp mean better brass?? Same brass?? Still scrap?? These are the questions I'm trying to answer for myself, with my own data and testing.

I added A USA to the post title for clarity....

Happy Easter! trails4u.

http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13436
 
I hit this thread with the Defibrillator paddles.

I have Armscor .357 brass head-stamped " A USA" After six years has the opinion changes from USA stamped is ok to USA stamped is no esta bien ?

Will be loading high pressure rounds.
 

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