Arbour press and Wilson dies vs Redding & Forster dies

[jobhopper66]

^^^^^Certainly alot of tried and true experience from this comment. Mr. Nyhus is definitely one to listen to.

 

[Ccrider]

What is wrong with the micrometer top?

 

[JimSC]

What is wrong with the micrometer top?

If you shoot the same bullet(s) at the same length the regular top works just fine at a lower cost. Maybe better since once you lock the adjustment with the setscrew it stays locked. A micrometer top can change settings if handled casually. I switch between 123 and 140's in .260 Rem and 77's and 80's in .223 I made up dummy bullets to the correct length then used superglue to make sure they don't move. Loosen setscrew back seating stem all the way out, put dummy bullet in the adjust till seating stem hits the dummy and tighten th elockscrew on seating stem. Easy Peasy.

These were seated using a Bald Eagle (Grizzly) and non micrometer dies. Again not BR quality but acceptable for a $1200 rifle/scope setup. I had not shot the rifle at 200 for awhile and just wanted to see how it would do

 

[jobhopper66]

My comment was not to imply I think there is anything wrong with a micrometer top but to give credit to an established shooter (Al Nyhus) who probably has tried alot of different reloading methods on his road to success.

 

[Raythemanroe]

is that a subjective opinion or have you tested that theory ?

When I bought my arbor and Wilson inline I loaded 50 rounds of .260 Remington using 140 gn Nosler CC's. Twenty five rounds with the arbor and twenty five rounds with my RC and Forster micrometer seating die. I measured all rounds for concentricity and base to ogive length using a Starrett 120A dial indicator and a Starrett 245-141 dial indicator. Both the bullet runout and base to ogive averaged .0015 both methods.

Now for the rest of the story the Forster seating die is my old .308 Win seating die. When I changed calibers from .308 to .260 money was tight and I seated a few rounds with the .308 Forster just to see. That Wilson die is so tight that get a bullet into it I have to lift the die off the base to break the air seal so the bullet will slide in. Since the Forster is designed for a .308 means that neck is free floating in the die. Yet bullets seat just as concentric because if that neck is straight that bullet has no choice except to slide into parallel to the neck walls. The press no matter what type or brand is simply exerting force straight down on that bullets ogive. No lateral forces are being applied with enough force to bend that brass neck. Pure physics plain and simple

Anyway been using that .308 seating die for that .260 now for 4 years and two barrels. I admit I have never won a BR contest , but since I have never competed in BR that would be hard to do ::::grin:::: I did manage to get a couple of second place finishes my first year competing in F mid and long range with ammo loaded using that die setup. Hoping for a first soon

edit..... that does not mean I don't use the arbor and Wilson's occasionally. I do enjoy the sensitive feel of the seating. They are a good way to seat, just not the only way

Your run out was most likely in the sizing


Ray

 

[Twicepop]

I tried that today assembling some rounds for a 6.5X55. I got less run-out at the tip of the bullet using a Forster micrometer seater than by using a Wilson in line die with an arbor press. I checked two rounds from each seating die, the Forster gave me .002" run-out and the Wilson die about .004-.005" run-out. New Lapua brass and Sierra 142 grain MK bullets. Four rounds total isn't much base an opinion on, but.........

 

[1911nut]

Yeah, what’s wrong with the micro top?

I dunno, the clicks are very fine, each click is less than 0.001”. I write down the setting for a COAL and it’s repeatable.

The top doesn’t move easily, mine won’t turn while “handling”.

Maybe slow to move a large change in seating depth.

They’re not cheap.

 

[snakepit]

I have used both Redding and Forster dies for bullet seating and they were both ok. I eventually bought a Sinclair/Wilson Seating Die and a Arbor Press and found it to be much smoother, accurate and consistent than either the Redding or Forster. Each click is .0005" and very solid and repeatable. Since then I have purchased two more Sinclair/Wilson dies in different calibers. They are expensive but to me worth the price. Sinclair often has the price marked down but I would pay full price if I needed one.

 

[fatelvis]

I almost bit on buying an arbor press and Wilson die for seating, thinking I might squeeze a tad bit more accuracy out of my routine. After this thread I decided I’ll stick with my Forster Ultra. It sounds like the jury is still out on the effectiveness of the arbor method.

 

[paulT]

I noticed the same when using my Wilson inline neck bushing die and micro seater on my k&m arbour press which produces 308 rounds with increased runnout verses my Redding S die to bump case shoulder then using a Redding comp neck bushing die to size case neck then seating bullet with a Redding comp seater on a 20 year old Rockchucker press which produces runoout in the 1 to 1.5 thou region verses the wilson setupp with Arbour press producing runout out to 3 to 4 thousands very disappointing.

 

[L.Sherm]

You guys that are saying more runout with the wilson inline seaters are these off the shelf or blanks that have been made from your chamber reamer ?

 

[paulT]

You guys that are saying more runout with the wilson inline seaters are these off the shelf or blanks that have been made from your chamber reamer ?

.308 inline bushing neck sizer die plus a Micrometer inline seater die set.

 

[L.Sherm]

.308 inline bushing neck sizer die plus a Micrometer inline seater die set.

So this was bought as a die set and the seater was not made from your chamber reamer ?

 

[AlNyhus]

Anyone seeing excessive (whatever that is ) run out after seating with a Wilson inline seater should check the diameter of the neck area of the seating die. Too much clearance can allow the neck to 'tip' when the bullet is seated, especially if the case mouth hasn't been properly deburred. It's more pronounced with flat based bullets, fairly snug neck tension and with case necks i.d.'s that are excessively clean (powder residue is an excellent dry lubricant for seating).

Scotch tape (which is about .002 thick) wrapped around the case neck can be used to reduce the clearance and see if the run out numbers improve.

 

[Twicepop]

You guys that are saying more runout with the wilson inline seaters are these off the shelf or blanks that have been made from your chamber reamer ?

I think the Wilson has the capabilty of being as accurate as the (in my case) Forster if the seater stem gets a slight modification, When seateing the bullets with the Forster die there is a faint ring on the ogive of the bullet where the seater stem is contacting it. With Wilson die, no ring is apparent, the meplat of the bullet is contacting the inner point of the die, tipping the bullet slightly. I noticed that the meplats of these bullets are not all alike, if they were trimmed/trued I might get the same results.

 

[JimSC]

Jim (IMO)
even when you shoot the same bullet you’ll still have throat erosion that will require seating adjustments during the life of the barrel, I’m experiencing a .001 +~ every couple hundred rounds.

I’m also in the camp of sorting Bullets base to ogive , I’ve seen a significant reduction in pesky fliers so it’s definitely in my routine.
J

some good points. I really need to get into the habit of sorting my bullets the way you do. I am slowly upgrading my equipment and at some point may change some day but for the moment I don't consider it a priority

 

[paulT]

So this was bought as a die set and the seater was not made from your chamber reamer ?

Correct.