Arbor Press Input

[Richard Coody]

Just got a chance to use my new K&M arbor press today. I seated 50 .223 80.5 gr Full bore bullets. Lapua match cases, turned to .012. Seated to .010 off the lands.
I could really feel the seating pressure. I was using a Wilson micrometer top in line seater. I sized the cases on a co-ax press, using a Forster BR full length sizer with a .223 ball installed. I could really feel the differences in seating force. Im very pleased wirh this setup. As a side benefit, runout was very low. 76% of the loads were less than .001. All of the rounds were less than 0.0015 measured on the ogive. I'm going to run with this set up for a while. I will eventually get the force pack.
+1 for the arbor press and in-line seater.

PopCharlie

Yep

Arbor press is awesome for seating bullets

I use the 21st century hydroseater. Learned a lot about tecniques for creating consistent neck tension from being able to measure seating force. Also found the amount of neck tension my rifles liked. Great tool for improving your reloading tecniques.

One of the things I have tried that actually showed the improvement on the target

For me it is like a concentricity gauge. Once i refined my tecniques for consistency I don't use it as much.

I use a harrells combo press for most of my benchrest reloading. I find with proper brass prep I can load perfectly acceptable loads with it.

 

[TrxR]

If your in a bind and don't have one available I've seated bullets by hand pressing down on the die with my palm. it works in a pinch

 

[JEFFPPC]

If your in a bind and don't have one available I've seated bullets by hand pressing down on the die with my palm. it works in a pinch

TrxR, I do the same thing at the range experimenting with seating depth. Perhaps the best thing about a force guage that it confirms certian aspects of your loading process and brass prep. I load 42 6BRX rounds this morning.all but 3 of them where within a 3 # range. Pretty equally divided. The other 3 where only opened it for 1 more # on the heavy side, I will use those for foulers. Spot checked about a quarter of them for run out, half where zero , other half .001 or less.So now it's up to me Sat or Sunday depending which match I shoot it in to steer it correctly. There is the weak part of the equation.

 

[B2Lee]

I've only been reloading for 30 years or so...so half the time of some of you...I have equipment from almost every manufacture. For precision long range loads...I haven't found anything to beat the results of:

K&M Arbor Press with Force Pack. - mounted using a Inline Fabrication plate.
LE Wilson neck sizing die
Sinclair LE Wilson Micrometer Bullet Seating Die
Sinclair Neck Mandrel - Carbide -.002 - Used on regular press.

Once you have experience using it....you don't really need the Force Pack that much....you can really feel when a piece of brass is out of spec. The other day I felt the difference on a piece of brass that somehow escaped the VLD chamfer process.

The one process everyone forgets....is Love...don't forget to add a little love to each round before it goes into the box....it will show up on the score sheet.

 

[JEFFPPC]

I've only been reloading for 30 years or so...so half the time of some of you...I have equipment from almost every manufacture. For precision long range loads...I haven't found anything to beat the results of:

K&M Arbor Press with Force Pack. - mounted using a Inline Fabrication plate.
LE Wilson neck sizing die
Sinclair LE Wilson Micrometer Bullet Seating Die
Sinclair Neck Mandrel - Carbide -.002 - Used on regular press.

Once you have experience using it....you don't really need the Force Pack that much....you can really feel when a piece of brass is out of spec. The other day I felt the difference on a piece of brass that somehow escaped the VLD chamfer process.

The one process everyone forgets....is Love...don't forget to add a little love to each round before it goes into the box....it will show up on the score sheet.

I with you 100 percent, good to put a little love into load those rounds. I do disgree that you can tell your seating force accurately with feel. Maybe often, but every time I load I get a couple that make me raise my eyebrows. I use the exact same set up you do by the way. If I had to list the top 10 things I feel help me produce accurate ammo, seating force would be at or near the bottem, if it made it at all.

 

[B2Lee]

I with you 100 percent, good to put a little love into load those rounds. I do disgree that you can tell your seating force accurately with feel. Maybe often, but every time I load I get a couple that make me raise my eyebrows. I use the exact same set up you do by the way. If I had to list the top 10 things I feel help me produce accurate ammo, seating force would be at or near the bottem, if it made it at all.

I agree that seating force is not in my top 5....and yes...I can not feel the difference within a few pounds...but I can feel when something is out of spec... You can definitely feel when a piece or two of brass is out of the annealing rotation...but I can feel that before this stage when I do the neck mandrel.

The LE Wilson Arbor Press dies have made the most improvements to my precision loads than anything so far. The bullet seater die is just such a perfect fit and supports the brass almost everywhere. My concentricity went from ok...to about perfect...whether or not it makes a big difference on paper is really mute in my mind though...because it is one less variable I can blame my poor shooting on

 

[JEFFPPC]

Easiest part of the process is annealing so I anneal every firing, We are in agreement in concenricity. I seldom ck it but I ck about 10 today. Half zero and half 1 or less. I shoot in the lands 95% of the time. I don't see concenticitynas much of a factor. I have a friend who thinks it is a big deal. He has this gadget he straightens the bullets with. Talk about ruining any neck tension control. Straight chambers, good loading, and 60,000 psi erase my fears on concenricity. If your competing this week end, good luck. Don't make everything perfect, you won't have any excuses,lol.

 

[Mikemci]

The one process everyone forgets....is Love...don't forget to add a little love to each round before it goes into the box....it will show up on the score sheet.

^^^THIS!!^^^

 

[boltman13]

I size my 6BR cases with the Widden Clic Adjustable Bushing Die for a fairly lite neck tension and my 6.5 Creedmoor brass with a Lee Collet Die again with lite neck tension. Loading boat tailed match bullets for F-Class Mid and Long Range with Wilson Seating Dies, and a Bald Eagle Arbor Press I can feel seating pressure significant outliers if they happen, but it is rare to feel one. I have no idea how consistent my seating pressure is but I do have the smallest run out I have ever gotten and it is showing up on my targets. If I ever get to the point I feel my ammunition is holding me back I would consider upgrading to a press that measures seating force.

 

[CarlGeorge]

Thanks everyone for great input! I'm still mulling over the direction I'm gonna head. I want to do one last experiment checking seating consistency ensuring the bullets in the test all have the same BTO measurement. If I do that and get inconsistent results, I'll likely get an Arbor.

Thanks again! Great to read the comments.

CG

 

[Richard Coody]

Thanks everyone for great input! I'm still mulling over the direction I'm gonna head. I want to do one last experiment checking seating consistency ensuring the bullets in the test all have the same BTO measurement. If I do that and get inconsistent results, I'll likely get an Arbor.

Thanks again! Great to read the comments.

CG

Are you annealing your brass. I find annealed brass takes a more consistent shoulder bump and more consistent base to ogive measurement

Bullets make a huge difference in base to ogive. If you find inconsistencies there sort a batch of bullets. An inconsistent ogive curve is common in some bullet manufacturers

 

[dtucker]

I have used a lot of arbor presses over the years, my favorite is the 1 made by Hart.

 

[Whisky Tahoe Foxtrot]

While I wouldn't use my arbor press exclusively, it makes seating adjustments very easy.
Seat long with your threaded seating die on your favorite press.
Next with an arbor press and inline seating die, adjust seating depth to keep up with throat wear.
This enables fine tuning seating depth vs group size while at the range.

Sleeved seating dies do work well but aren't always portable.
However one could use something like a RCBS summit with threaded seating dies at the expense of weight.

 

[DaveTooley]

I would never consider seating bullets for competition on anything else but an arbor press with an inline die.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

The press is not your issue. You could have a few things going on:

Crushing powder.

Severe neck misalignment from a bad sizer die or excessive neck thickness variation.

Measuring bullets on a different spot than your seater will hit (this is what gets everybody it seems).

you gotta find your problem first. The finest arbor press and inline seating die will not fix any of these issues. And again the problem is not your press.

 

[CarlGeorge]

Are you annealing your brass. I find annealed brass takes a more consistent shoulder bump and more consistent base to ogive measurement

Bullets make a huge difference in base to ogive. If you find inconsistencies there sort a batch of bullets. An inconsistent ogive curve is common in some bullet manufacturers

I *JUST* started annealing. Just now getting comfortable with the process. (I got a Bench-Source.)

I need to find time to re-check results ensuring tested bullets all have same BTO measurement. I'm figuring that's the reason for the variances - and kicking myself I didn't remember that as I threw bullets into a box labeled "For Sighters / Fouling" I'd forgotten they weren't consisten.

The press is not your issue. You could have a few things going on:

Crushing powder.

Severe neck misalignment from a bad sizer die or excessive neck thickness variation.

Measuring bullets on a different spot than your seater will hit (this is what gets everybody it seems).

you gotta find your problem first. The finest arbor press and inline seating die will not fix any of these issues. And again the problem is not your press.

Thanks Dusty.

Highly confident not crushing powder. Haven't investigated the sizer. Lapua brass. (necked up 6.5-284 on its 3rd loading) I'm using an expander mandrel.

I'm guessing strongly the issue is your last point.