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Arbor Press Input

CarlGeorge

CarlGeorge

Interested in input re going to an Arbor Press. My questions are on two levels:

Q1: Deciding to go with an Arbor nor not: I'm currently using an old Rock Chucker and my frustration level is escalating. I've posted previously about some inconsistencies it seems to have. RCBS sent me a new set of pins and I replaced them, but yesterday I was seating bullets (.284 using a Redding Competition Seater die) and was getting up to .003 variance in seating depth. I've had other issues (bullet scratches showing up above the case mouth) which are all leading me to believe this press has an issue. So, one approach is to replace the press. Were I to do this I'd likely get a Co-Ax. But this press is meeting my needs for my other loading (mainstream pistol calibers, .223 for AR plinking, etc.). So I had the thought of getting an Arbor Press just for seating my precision ammo. Thoughts?

Q2: Force gauge vs not for an Arbor. How is seating force knowledge useful (if at all) other than weeding out the outliers? If you find cases that require high seating force, for example, can you do things in case prep during the next loading cycle to bring that seating force in line? How does knowledge of seating force get used other than finding rounds that aren't in the norm?

Thanks!

CG
 
180gr Hybrid Taget. VLD stem.

Good question. I sort my bullets by BTO. But I was loading some "plinking" ammo from a box that I'd put a bunch of my scratched bullets in. Some may have been different BTO between them. I hadn't thought of that.
 
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When I bought a used 6 BRA this winter, I also purchased his Wilson seater die, so I needed an arbor press. I purchased the K&M to give me the option of the force gauge in the future.
I've been seating 6 Dasher on my Redding Big Boss for years, and I'll admit, I like the arbor press because the handle throw is so much shorter.
I searched for every force gauge thread I could find here. A few swear by them. Most cannot find a change on the target, so I won't buy the force gauge for my press.
You'll feel some different forces when seating. You'll quickly learn the "normal" pressure. If I get a very noticeable light or heavy force, they are my sighters - maybe get 5 of them per 50.
If you decide on no force gauge, Harrels, Sinclair, even Grizzly/Bald Eagle make nice simple presses. Even better, place a Wanted ad here, I bet someone has one.
 
Just got a K&M arbor press and a Wilson seater. Ive been able to get runout, shoulder bump and neck wall thickness under control. I'm thinking that I will try to get a handle on neck tension by using this setup. I went without the force pack, which I can add later. I'll go by feel first, measuring it later.
 
I have a B-Square arbor press, it is stout enough to full length size with Wilson F/L sizer dies. It also works very well with bullet seating dies.
 
My arbor press idea is going to come to frutation, (yeah.. prob a made up word.. big deal).

Take your regular single stage loading press, have a friend or machine shop make you a flat bottom'd plug where the die would screw in. and a flat piece that fits the ram, just the right size for the inline seating die.. then just raise the ram, micrometer inline dies will stop on the setting. Rinse and repeat.. some may not think that this a good idea. But a friend prob will do it for free or as in my case, the local machine shop will make the plug and base plate for 60 bucks
 
Shooters tend to praise arbor presses. This is my controversial opinion: Arbor presses do not make your ammo any better than an O frame. In my experience, it all comes out the same if you are careful and diligent.

Arbors good for a few reasons, but they're bad for a few as well. Mostly, it's a matter of leverage.

The good:

They're light and portable. No clamps required
Because they have low leverage, you can really feel the difference in seating pressure and cull odd balls for fouling shots.
You can use one with some sort of force measurement (hydraulic or electronic) if that's your thing.

The bad:

They're more expensive than a small O frame, especially if you want a force measurement system.
Because they have low leverage, it's easy to introduce a small variation in seating depth without realizing it.
They're annoying to use.
You cannot full length size.

My personal preference is an RCBS Partner. It's as small and portable as an arbor, and has the leverage of an O frame. You do need something to clamp it to, however. I used to use a Partner as my primary press back when I lived in an apartment. I now have a rockchucker at home, but I'm not entirely sure why. The partner does the job and the rock chucker throws the primers all over the shop just as well.
 
USMCDOC said:
My arbor press idea is going to come to frutation, (yeah.. prob a made up word.. big deal).

Take your regular single stage loading press, have a friend or machine shop make you a flat bottom'd plug where the die would screw in. and a flat piece that fits the ram, just the right size for the inline seating die.. then just raise the ram, micrometer inline dies will stop on the setting. Rinse and repeat.. some may not think that this a good idea. But a friend prob will do it for free or as in my case, the local machine shop will make the plug and base plate for 60 bucks
Click to expand...
I have a little arbor press I use sometimes but you have what I think is a good idea
 
biggun2869 said:
I have a little arbor press I use sometimes but you have what I think is a good idea
Click to expand...
Thanks.. i am going to the shop on monday to further discuss this

And have a prototype in a few days.. will show you what it looks like after i get it in my hands
 
damoncali said:
Shooters tend to praise arbor presses. This is my controversial opinion: Arbor presses do not make your ammo any better than an O frame. In my experience, it all comes out the same if you are careful and diligent.

Arbors good for a few reasons, but they're bad for a few as well. Mostly, it's a matter of leverage.

The good:

They're light and portable. No clamps required
Because they have low leverage, you can really feel the difference in seating pressure and cull odd balls for fouling shots.
You can use one with some sort of force measurement (hydraulic or electronic) if that's your thing.

The bad:

They're more expensive than a small O frame, especially if you want a force measurement system.
Because they have low leverage, it's easy to introduce a small variation in seating depth without realizing it.
They're annoying to use.
You cannot full length size.

My personal preference is an RCBS Partner. It's as small and portable as an arbor, and has the leverage of an O frame. You do need something to clamp it to, however. I used to use a Partner as my primary press back when I lived in an apartment. I now have a rockchucker at home, but I'm not entirely sure why. The partner does the job and the rock chucker throws the primers all over the shop just as well.
Click to expand...

I think the main reason to have an arbor press and inline dies is because they are more precise and consistent that a regular press and dies for seating bullets. The 21st Century Hydro Bullet Seater arbor press gives you immediate feedback as to seating force. That is important in disciplines like LR BR where shooters need a consistent sub 1/4 MOA rifle. Many F-Class competitors want that too. Short range (100-300 yds) BR is the most precise shooting discipline, and they most likely like arbor presses because it allows them to load their prepped and primed brass very consistently during a match with minimal fuss. I don't shoot SR BR, but I do know that different things are important for it vs LR BR.

I measure every round after seating, and its almost a given that a round that seats with 60 PSI will measure longer than a round that seats with 20 PSI. That usually happens when I seat the first round of a batch and realize that I forgot to brush the inside of the case necks......

Now I only use the inline dies and Hydro press for seating BR loads. Everything else, including sizing for the BR rifles, is done on my Forster CoAx. With my big game hunting rifles I am only concerned about getting 3/4 MOA 3-shot groups. The exception to that would be a long range hunting rig where it needs to be under 1/2 MOA. You don't need to fuss with with the all obsessive details used for a competition rifle to get 1/2 MOA. In fact, many of the things we do for a competition rifle don't make any difference in a hunting rifle.
 
damoncali said:
How do you get the case out of the die when full length sizing?
Click to expand...
My Wilson dies came with a rod that is of slightly less than neck diameter, and it comes with a base that the die sits on that has a hole of larger diameter than the rim of the case. The case is lubed and inserted into the die, and the die is pushed down over the case until the die bottoms out on the base of the press. Then the rod goes into the case and bottoms out on the case web. The arbor press is used to push the rod and the case through the base until it releases it's hold on the case. Then I take the rod out, lube the next case and repeat the procedure until cases I've designated to be sized are done.
 
Fine idea with inline seating die. I started shooting some 1000yd game couple of years a go and added a force gauge. It made me be more aware of neck tension but I can not say I have seen definitive repeatable results on target . Compared to the gains I did see from weighing to one piece of powder and sorting bullets the force gauge has not excited me.Lots of old short range shooters around bet if you ask in the classifieds you find someone willing to sell at a fair price.
 
Just got a chance to use my new K&M arbor press today. I seated 50 .223 80.5 gr Full bore bullets. Lapua match cases, turned to .012. Seated to .010 off the lands.
I could really feel the seating pressure. I was using a Wilson micrometer top in line seater. I sized the cases on a co-ax press, using a Forster BR full length sizer with a .223 ball installed. I could really feel the differences in seating force. Im very pleased wirh this setup. As a side benefit, runout was very low. 76% of the loads were less than .001. All of the rounds were less than 0.0015 measured on the ogive. I'm going to run with this set up for a while. I will eventually get the force pack.
+1 for the arbor press and in-line seater.

PopCharlie
 
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