Anyone tried the PVM-21?
- Thread starter rstreich
- Start date
Fred Bohl
Gold $$ Contributor
Robert
You must be getting tired of hearing from me. I have a PVM-21 chronograph and based on some limited initial testing it appears to be worth the price.
I have been using a CED chronogaph. In normal mode it has the typical fits with changing sky conditions. With the infra red lighting option it behaves much more consistently and gives close results compared to a friends Oehler 35P,same shot through both) with occasional discrepancies between the two.
The PVM-21 gives no trouble at all with ambient lighting or false trips. In a three way comparison,same shots through the PVM-21, Oehler 35P and CED with IR screens) the PVM -21 gave the the lowest ES and SD followed by the CED IR and then the Oehler 35P with several sets of very good loads from several hand loaders.
If I find time to do more testing of the PVM-21,amongst all the optics tests) I'll pass along my impressions.
You must be getting tired of hearing from me. I have a PVM-21 chronograph and based on some limited initial testing it appears to be worth the price.
I have been using a CED chronogaph. In normal mode it has the typical fits with changing sky conditions. With the infra red lighting option it behaves much more consistently and gives close results compared to a friends Oehler 35P,same shot through both) with occasional discrepancies between the two.
The PVM-21 gives no trouble at all with ambient lighting or false trips. In a three way comparison,same shots through the PVM-21, Oehler 35P and CED with IR screens) the PVM -21 gave the the lowest ES and SD followed by the CED IR and then the Oehler 35P with several sets of very good loads from several hand loaders.
If I find time to do more testing of the PVM-21,amongst all the optics tests) I'll pass along my impressions.
Forum Boss
Administrator
I've been working with one,helping Joe Friedrich) over the last couple of days. The unit has some very powerful software features that can be exploited with a Lap-top.
Getting it going at first, is not very intuitive. You can't just plug in the display unit and pull the trigger--you need to set a variety of variables. And if you're using the Lap-top software, it will take some time to configure the port settings and label your data fields.
Once that is done, it's a pretty amazing unit. Imagine your chron results being automatically saved in a database with every shot. You can segregate results by rifle, load, bullet weight, you name it. No more manual data entry into a spreadsheet or wordprocessing file.
The big test is coming up soon. Joe and I are going to see how the thing works in bright overhead sunlight, then with night vapor lamp lighting, and finally in complete darkness,well at least at night with no moon).
I really like the fact that the whole sensor unit is about the size of a hat box and is easy to move around.
There are some glitches--the 120 volt converter is funky. And it's hard to remember the function settings on the hand control. I told Neconos that they need a 1 or 2-page hard copy "Startup Guide for Dummies", so an owner can master the basics without have to search through a 42-page manual on CD. I'm working on that right now.
Fred should chime in here. Maybe I'm dummer than the average chrono buyer, but I've found it more difficult than expected to get the unit up and running. But if you can slog through the configuration issues the PVM-21 is very impressive. Most people will never use all its features, but just being able to store chron data in a database is a huge advantage.
Getting it going at first, is not very intuitive. You can't just plug in the display unit and pull the trigger--you need to set a variety of variables. And if you're using the Lap-top software, it will take some time to configure the port settings and label your data fields.
Once that is done, it's a pretty amazing unit. Imagine your chron results being automatically saved in a database with every shot. You can segregate results by rifle, load, bullet weight, you name it. No more manual data entry into a spreadsheet or wordprocessing file.
The big test is coming up soon. Joe and I are going to see how the thing works in bright overhead sunlight, then with night vapor lamp lighting, and finally in complete darkness,well at least at night with no moon).
I really like the fact that the whole sensor unit is about the size of a hat box and is easy to move around.
There are some glitches--the 120 volt converter is funky. And it's hard to remember the function settings on the hand control. I told Neconos that they need a 1 or 2-page hard copy "Startup Guide for Dummies", so an owner can master the basics without have to search through a 42-page manual on CD. I'm working on that right now.
Fred should chime in here. Maybe I'm dummer than the average chrono buyer, but I've found it more difficult than expected to get the unit up and running. But if you can slog through the configuration issues the PVM-21 is very impressive. Most people will never use all its features, but just being able to store chron data in a database is a huge advantage.
Fred Bohl
Gold $$ Contributor
Robert,
I leave the sensor assembly together and found a carton that fits it well so I just put that in the carton then put the control unit, cables and battery inside with judicious placement of bubble wrap. A couple of straps to hold it all together also serve as handles to get it all from the truck to the firing line.
The sensor assembly includes a nice cross bar with a 1/4-20 tapped hole for a standard tripod screw. For the preliminary testing though we made a long beam,aluminum channel) mounted on two tripods to which we mounted all three sensor assemblies so we could shoot through all three with each shot for the comparisons,Rub Goldberg would have been proud).
Paul,
I probably should have noted the set-up issue. But then I'm used to some very funky setup issues with astronomic scope guiding and control software as well as image capture and image processing software for scope digital image sensors,all from different vendors - must be a masochist?).
For those of you that have used Quick Load or Quick Design software, the initial set-up for the PVM-21 is easier to get to first useful data. Keep prodding them for a short quick-start manual but don't hold your breath. I can say this from a long true history in my German family "You can always tell a German - but not much".
We also did some serious fiddling with flash lights, mirrors aluminum foil, and a portable strobe light to try to get them to false trigger or give false readings,unsuccessfully on the PVM-21, but occasionally on both the CED and Oehler 35P). I think the range officer was calling the guys at Happy Acres to come and collect us but we assured him that we had a pass and were not escapees.
Both,
You do not have to use the laptop at the range, the control unit also stores a lot of data that can be downloaded later to a computer that has the software package on it for data base storage and analysis when it is too dark or too wet to shoot.
I leave the sensor assembly together and found a carton that fits it well so I just put that in the carton then put the control unit, cables and battery inside with judicious placement of bubble wrap. A couple of straps to hold it all together also serve as handles to get it all from the truck to the firing line.
The sensor assembly includes a nice cross bar with a 1/4-20 tapped hole for a standard tripod screw. For the preliminary testing though we made a long beam,aluminum channel) mounted on two tripods to which we mounted all three sensor assemblies so we could shoot through all three with each shot for the comparisons,Rub Goldberg would have been proud).
Paul,
I probably should have noted the set-up issue. But then I'm used to some very funky setup issues with astronomic scope guiding and control software as well as image capture and image processing software for scope digital image sensors,all from different vendors - must be a masochist?).
For those of you that have used Quick Load or Quick Design software, the initial set-up for the PVM-21 is easier to get to first useful data. Keep prodding them for a short quick-start manual but don't hold your breath. I can say this from a long true history in my German family "You can always tell a German - but not much".
We also did some serious fiddling with flash lights, mirrors aluminum foil, and a portable strobe light to try to get them to false trigger or give false readings,unsuccessfully on the PVM-21, but occasionally on both the CED and Oehler 35P). I think the range officer was calling the guys at Happy Acres to come and collect us but we assured him that we had a pass and were not escapees.
Both,
You do not have to use the laptop at the range, the control unit also stores a lot of data that can be downloaded later to a computer that has the software package on it for data base storage and analysis when it is too dark or too wet to shoot.
Forum Boss
Administrator
Fred,
I'm not waiting on Werner for the Quick-Start manual. If it wasn't clear, I'm writing one. The goal is to get all the key things needed on one dual-sided page,,or maybe a fold-out), that we would then have laminated.
Re Quick-Load. I didn't have any start-up "problems". However, I'll admit that many VERY IMPORTANT features were not obvious or discovered until I had dozens of hours with the program. You could probably teach a college semester course just on this program,much like Excel). However, it installed easily and I was able to figure out the basics pretty quickly. The only "defects" were some bad data entries,incorrect bullet archive measurements) that were fixed with a free software upgrade.
With the PVM, we have encountered hardware issues,funky power converter, possibly defective display LCD), software issues,minor issues with driver installation and com port configuration). I do think someone who just paid $740.00 would expect something that could be put into action faster and more effortlessly. You can't just plug it in and start shooting like a Shooting Chrony.
A simple Video with Ed Dillon plugging the thing together and firing it up,both standalone and with laptop) would be very helpful!
I'm not waiting on Werner for the Quick-Start manual. If it wasn't clear, I'm writing one. The goal is to get all the key things needed on one dual-sided page,,or maybe a fold-out), that we would then have laminated.
Re Quick-Load. I didn't have any start-up "problems". However, I'll admit that many VERY IMPORTANT features were not obvious or discovered until I had dozens of hours with the program. You could probably teach a college semester course just on this program,much like Excel). However, it installed easily and I was able to figure out the basics pretty quickly. The only "defects" were some bad data entries,incorrect bullet archive measurements) that were fixed with a free software upgrade.
With the PVM, we have encountered hardware issues,funky power converter, possibly defective display LCD), software issues,minor issues with driver installation and com port configuration). I do think someone who just paid $740.00 would expect something that could be put into action faster and more effortlessly. You can't just plug it in and start shooting like a Shooting Chrony.
A simple Video with Ed Dillon plugging the thing together and firing it up,both standalone and with laptop) would be very helpful!
I had a quick chat with the guy at NECO today. Based on what you guys have said, I think I'll go ahead and spend the extra bucks on the PVM-21.
Paul, you had me concerned for a minute there with that COM port issue. I started thinking that it transferred data via the COM port. If I had just gone back to the web page I would have seen that it has a USB interface. This was kind of a big concern for me as I'd rather build my own database for the data. I thought it might be interesting to look for correlations,like primer-powder affinity) across a variety of loads.
Jeez, next thing you know I'll be buying a copy of QuickLoad.
Paul, you had me concerned for a minute there with that COM port issue. I started thinking that it transferred data via the COM port. If I had just gone back to the web page I would have seen that it has a USB interface. This was kind of a big concern for me as I'd rather build my own database for the data. I thought it might be interesting to look for correlations,like primer-powder affinity) across a variety of loads.
Jeez, next thing you know I'll be buying a copy of QuickLoad.
Forum Boss
Administrator
The PVM communicates via a USB cable to a lap-top computer. However it uses a software pathway called a VCP,Virtual Com port). This has to be set up correctly, and there are a couple other things that need to be tweaked. It sure ain't like plugging a video camera into an OS-X Mac,Plug camera into USB port, camera appears as icon on desktop. Click on icon and hit "yes" and video downloads into editing/playback software).
Moderator said:
If it doesn't do the logical thing of identifying itself as a storage device, that could be a problem. When you plug it in, where does it show up in your list of devices?
The Virtual Com Port just indicates that their software is really old and probably written in Visual Basic where they were reading from a COM port. Instead of updating it to read from the USB device, they just bought or built a VCP to make it work. If you can determine how it identifies itself, I can figure out if it's worth the effort to talk to it.
OTOH, would it be acceptable for you to email the manual to me? I'd like to see if they allow you to export the data from their database and I feel guilty asking you to do all this research for me. The manual might answer all my questions.
I'm guessing they just use an Access DB. If they do, it'd be easy enough to dig the data out myself. If not, it's probably a pretty simplistic homegrown DB that I can hack my through.
Thanks for the info Paul.
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