Anyone load precision rifle on a dillon progressive?

[d.id]

I do not and can not.
I tested my beloved 550 against my rockchucker many years ago and concluded the single stage using the same components and loads consistently made more accurate ammo for my rifles.
.
Which relegated the 550 to my high volume handgun loads which is what I had it for anyway.
.
Recently had a discussion with some folks on another forum claiming "they should be equals".
.
This is of course contrary to my own experience but I have to admit to not spending a lot of time trying to resolve it as the results of my little experiment and the solution to it was just too obvious. I returned to my single stage, switched my dillon back to 45acp and never gave it another thought.
.
Did I give in too easy? Is the dillon capable of highest precision rifle ammo? Or is the internet just full of folks claiming to know things they do not?................Thanks

 

[jlow]

This is an old question that has come out many many times and has been chewed to death. Do a Google search and you will find many long long threads to satisfy your question.

 

[d.id]

Thanks JLOW but.........I relize the progressive vs single debate is as old as the 9mm vs 45 debate. Google search produces a million results most of which by folks that think 1.5" groups are perdy good.
.
I see allot of search results here but none thus far claiming they load 1/4" ammo on a dillon.
Even see "match winner using dillon" but that doesn't mean squat either unless you know it's a br match. Many tactical matches do not really require that much precision.
.
Not looking to re-ignite an old debate, I have both love both and am just curious if my own limited testing is consistent with what others "who know accuracy" have found.

 

[sparky123321]

Wouldn't do it myself and I have a Hornady progressive I use for pistol and high volume .223 non-match/non-bolt action ammo. I stick with my coax press, arbor press, high quality standard dies, Wilson seating dies and a scientific scale for my match quality ammo.

If you really think it's worth a try, take the time to load up 50 or so on the Dillon. Check the overall length and concentricity to .001". Anything over 0.002-0.003" would be unacceptable to me for match quality ammo. After that pull the bullets and weigh the powder charges. Anything over 0.04 grain would be unacceptable to me for match quality ammo. I'd take a close look at how consistent the primers were seated as well. Even if everything meets your standards you loose a lot of the "feel" on a progressive, especially the bullet seating tension. Consistent neck tension is a biggie when it come to match quality ammo.

 

[jlow]

My own guess and from what I have seen is it is possible, but the question is what does it take in terms of adjustments and changes to do this, and to keep it working that way?

I use a 650 for pistol and I love it but at least to me, even if it is possible, the question is the practicality of the exercise. If you spend so much time and effort to get something like that to work and keep working, are you really saving time and money or are you just making a point?

It's the reason why I do not reload plinking rifle ammo even though I can - it's just not worth it.

 

[amlevin]

My own guess and from what I have seen is it is possible, but the question is what does it take in terms of adjustments and changes to do this, and to keep it working that way?

It's really not as hard to do as one might think. First stop thinking of the press as a "Progressive" and just a single stage that has 5 "stages" built in.

I have added Unique-Tek's tool head locking kit to my 650 toolheads which consist merely of threaded inserts so the head is held in place by small socket head machine screws rather than the pins. The tool head is now locked in place with all "float" eliminated.

Second, I removed the Dillon powder measure and installed a powder funnel. All charges are dropped and trickled on a combination Dispenser/trickler/stand from RCBS.

Lastly, all vacant stations on the tool head are filled with Dillon Powder Measure Dies which are basically just hollow theaded tubes.

Station one is filled with a Sizing die. Station two the powder die with funnel, the body screwed down so it touches the shell plate firmly when the ram is up. Station three doesn't need a powder check so I just use another powder die, again screwed down so it touches the shell plate as in Sta 2. Station 4 is the seating station where I use a Forster Ultra Seater Micrometer die that has had a slight amount of material removed from the bottom of the "chamber" part of the die. This lets me use it as a "Dead Length" die.

Station 5 is again unused so it has a powder die body installed, again touching the shell plate when the ram is up.


By using the extra powder die bodies it eliminates any possible "cocking" of the plate or the plate holder attached to the top of the ram.

A three-pack of powder die bodies, a funnel "die" (from a 550B or a Lee Universal Rifle Powder die), and the locking kit from Unique-Tek.


With my press set up this way I can easily load 100 rounds per hour with no "die swapping". I just have to remember to always have the ram up before dumping the measured powder charge into the funnel :-[ :-[ :-[

 

[jlow]

So are you loading 1/4" rounds by this method as per the OP's question?

 

[amlevin]

So are you loading 1/4" rounds by this method as per the OP's question?

Does this count? (.247")

Or this at 300 yards?

Here's a 4-shot group that was actually "recorded" as it was shot using a Bullseye Target Cam system. First shot was high-left and the next four ended up in this group.

BTW, this is the rifle. Not a BR rifle, just one shot from a bipod with a rear sand sock.

Short answer===== Yes.


"If you done it, it ain't bragging."

~~~~~~Walt Whitman

 

[jlow]

Depends completely on whether you are cherry picking or consistently being able to get 1/4 groups. ;D

 

[sparky123321]

Working up an accurate load and the consistency of your reloading practices and equipment are really two different things. Just achieving a certain MOA or size group doesn't mean you've achieved the best possible accuracy from your rifle. Confirming the accuracy and consistency of your reloading practices and equipment requires precisely measuring OAL, concentricity(case alone and seated bullet), powder charge and velocities(ES and SD). I won't get into quality of brass, case weight, volume, neck turning, neck tension, bullet quality, bullet weight, uniforming primer pockets, deburring flash holes, etc., because that's what I consider reloading prep and not the actual reloading process.

 

[LRTom]

Ask John Whidden, he loads all his match ammo on a Dillon. Hard to argue with his 3 National Long Range Championships.

 

[sparky123321]

Go for it. I wouldn't in a million years. Weighing and trickling your powder charges off of the Dillon press would make a world of difference though. That's my primary concern, among others, about using a progressive press for match quality ammo. It's also the primary benefit to a progressive press which you now loose out on. I'd rather throw the handle one additional time on a Forster Coax Press or arbor press with Wilson dies. Most rifle ammo only requires two passes on a press anyway(FL or NK size and Seating). Unlike pistol, which often requires expanding the case and a crimp.

I'm guessing the VAST MAJORITY of the match shooters out their don't load their ammo on a Dillon press. One or two sure doesn't make a rule. I'm not knocking the Dillon press. I like them, but like the Hornady progressive better.

 

[sparky123321]

A Whidden quote:

"I also sometimes use a Wilson hand seater. I'll use the Wilson die if I sense I'm getting inconsistent neck tension. The Wilson has a very good feel, so it sort of serves as a diagnostic tool for neck tension. It is also useful for loading when I'm away from home at a match."

 

[amlevin]

Depends completely on whether you are cherry picking or consistently being able to get 1/4 groups. ;D

Sorry but I can do this almost any day I take this rifle out.

Besides, I gave up long ago feeling like I had to impress anyone. Retirement can do that you know.

I believe I answered your question.

 

[amlevin]

Go for it. I wouldn't in a million years. Weighing and trickling your powder charges off of the Dillon press would make a world of difference though. That's my primary concern, among others, about using a progressive press for match quality ammo. It's also the primary benefit to a progressive press which you now loose out on. I'd rather throw the handle one additional time on a Forster Coax Press or arbor press with Wilson dies. Most rifle ammo only requires two passes on a press anyway(FL or NK size and Seating). Unlike pistol, which often requires expanding the case and a crimp.

I'm guessing the VAST MAJORITY of the match shooters out their don't load their ammo on a Dillon press. One or two sure doesn't make a rule. I'm not knocking the Dillon press. I like them, but like the Hornady progressive better.

Wasn't the question whether people did load accurately on a progressive rather than should they or how many?

I believe the original question was "does anyone" not should they?"

 

[Joe R]

d.id said: I do not and can not.
I tested my beloved 550 against my rockchucker many years ago and concluded the single stage using the same components and loads consistently made more accurate ammo for my rifles.
.
Which relegated the 550 to my high volume handgun loads which is what I had it for anyway.
.
Recently had a discussion with some folks on another forum claiming "they should be equals".
.
This is of course contrary to my own experience but I have to admit to not spending a lot of time trying to resolve it as the results of my little experiment and the solution to it was just too obvious. I returned to my single stage, switched my dillon back to 45acp and never gave it another thought.
.
Did I give in too easy? Is the dillon capable of highest precision rifle ammo? Or is the internet just full of folks claiming to know things they do not?................Thanks

You aren't the only one. When I first started reloading I was naïve/stupid enough to try to load precision ammo on a Hornady LnL AP press, and after 2 years of inconsistent results I finally came to my senses. By that time I had learned enough to realize why it isn't possible.

I had seen David Tubb video on precision reloading and it shows him using a Dillon, but as Glen Zediker points out in his book that press is much more similar to a souped up stock car Monte Carlo ready for Daytona then it is a Monte Carlo that you get from a Chevy dealer.

Kindest regards.

Joe

 

[jlow]

Well, if you can have this level of accuracy and precision, I don’t see any reason to be sorry.

I would however adjust the definition of “If you done it, it ain’t bragging” At least according to The Fee Dictionary on the web, it is defined as “To talk boastfully” FWIW, it has nothing to do with one’s ability or performance.

 

[jlow]

I had seen David Tubb video on precision reloading and it shows him using a Dillon, but as Glen Zediker points out in his book that press is much more similar to a souped up stock car Monte Carlo ready for Daytona then it is a Monte Carlo that you get from a Chevy dealer.

Exactly!

 

[madderg]

I have a 550 B, and with the right dies in place it's great for my 223 with 69gr. Sierra match. Take your time and watch the powder throw, an extra light at that station makes life easier...good shooting

 

[jonbearman]

I also use my 550B on occasion for my rifle loads and when I check runout it is quite acceptable. Now for benchrest it is a arbor press and a rockchucker,and a junior. If you run a 550B slower the end result is very good.