Anyone have any scope horror story to tell

[jlow]

I know loose scope rings can spell disaster for precision/accuracy but the question here is assuming all is well there and it is a quality one and torque to spec. Has anyone experience problems with their scope internal mechanism that caused their groups to open up slightly.

The “slightly” is intentional here as large inconsistent groups are more obvious but the question here is if anyone found subtle problems with their scope that cause their groups to open up slightly? Of course to make this more complicated, it would have to be a high quality scope and not a cheapo one.

Please only answer if you have actual experience in this matter.

 

[MGYSGT]

No problems groups opening up, but I can say, "Don't open up an old Redfield 25X Target Scope and blow the dust out of the inside. It tends to make the cross hairs disappear. It only takes 14 months to get new ones installed.

 

[mikecr]

I chased my tail with load development using a NF NXS 8-32. Subtle POI shifts with each range visit and occasional double grouping. The only way I could prove it to myself, as I denied it heavily, was to pick up another scope used(another NXS), and compare results. The used scope won.
I sent it to NF with a note suggesting only that I suspected an internal issue. Said no more about it because I wanted to see what they come up with.
3 days later my scope returned, I kid you not, and they had found a lens bedding issue and fixed it. Free.
I tested it with suspicion, but the problem never returned. Apparently they nailed it(or ran over it with one of their HumVees).

 

[willbas]

Mine is still going on. New VX6 7-42X56 fell a part in 56 rounds side focus was making clucking noise. Leupold got my scope on 8-21-14 and sat in receiving till 9-3-14 I got post card on 9-8-14 the average repair time is 18 working days. I should get it back some time in Oct.

 

[jlow]

Thanks for the input guys – much appreciated.

The specific type of experience that mikecr described is what I was looking for. Just curious, anyone with a similar experience with that NF NXS 8-32 model?

 

[mr45man]

Mikecr
I had a NF NXS 8-32. fail on the second day of the FCSA Nationals
Same thing, a lense came loose.
Although rare, it can happen to the best of scopes.
John H

 

[jlow]

Yikes... two and counting... Anyone else?

 

[mr45man]

Not wanting to be part of a Night force bashing thing,
I have to say i bought a 12x42 after my experience and
have not had any more issues with either one.
And if the need arises would buy another one.
John H.

 

[jlow]

Agreed!

However, this is either a fluke or some sort of real pattern and so I would like to hear from others if they have a similar experience as this may end up helping someone since this type of problem is very difficult to diagnose.

mr45man and mikecr please see my private post to you.

 

[Kings X]

Those type problems are hard to find. We tend to blame the scope last. We pay big money for quality optics that we can depend on day in and day out. But sometimes we just have to swap scopes to solve the issue.
A few years back I was shooting bad scores at 1000. Shots had no pattern - just all over the target. But 100 yard groups were small. I blamed me.
Then I did a test. I shoot at 100 yards. I shoot a groups at the 100 yard scope setting and also the 1000 yard setting (25-35 MOA up) and compare group sizes. The higher knob setting groups were 3 times the size of the lower setting.
Returned that NF BR 12-42 to Nightforce for repair. Testing after I got it back had groups that were only twice as large. That scope went to a 50 yard only 22 BR gun. And the big gun got a Sightron 10-50.
So I do the test at lease once a year on my long range guns.
Last year my second 12-42 BR failed the test and went back for repair. NF said that they could not find a problem. I did pay $140 to have the rear eyepiece upgraded (very early BR model) and the scope then would be also brought up to 2013 standards.
Not liking the idea that they could find anything wrong with #2 - I purchased a new 15-42 Competitor For the Nationals and the World F-class matches.
I got a lemon. Some of the scopes are fine. I just drew a bad one. It would throw a round or two and then come back to zero. When it threw one over the target in a match at the Nationals - that was the last straw. Sold it the next day for a lot less than I paid for it. I like the scope except for the wild shots. The guy that bought it as mounted it on a 6BR and has had no problems. I switched to a March 10-60 and have had no problems.
Or the #2 BR still shot different size groups after rebuild. I gave it away.
Everyone has a story - that is mine.

 

[willbas]

I got my Leupold back today way ahead of what I thought it would be just one problem They did not fix it just moved the clucking noise. Before it was in middle of turning the focus knob now it make the noise at the ends.

 

[6BRinNZ]

I had it with a Leupold (brand new) Vxl 6.5 - 20 x 56 from memory. New 6br and new scope - doing load development, never quite happy. Occasional double grouping and POI changes from one range day to the next. All of it small enough to make me think it was me. One day I adjusted POI and shot another group and it was as though I never moved the dial (Clicks were 1/10th and I moved 1 click)....clicks were positive...nothing to detect. In the end I sent it back to Leupold as I didn't know what else to do. It came back fully rebuilt.

It took a six week turn around and no questions asked...very good service albeit the shine for their products wasn't there anymore.

 

[jlow]

Thanks again for some interesting experience and insight – much appreciated!

Here is a question for you guys who has gone through this type of difficult and frustrating experience. As you know, because we are talking about high end expensive scopes, we as already mentioned tend to put the blame on everything and anything (including ourselves) except the scope… If one finally comes to the realization that perhaps the scope may be the source of the problem, what is the best and most fool proof way to find out if this is the case.

I see that mikecr ended up buying a used scope – I too have contemplated this route but it is of course an expensive one. But this highlight the problem that many of us face which is we don’t normally have a comparable power and quality scope despite having multiple optics.

If the faileur is catastrophic, that is in fact easier but again we are talking about that subtle problem which one can easily attribute to a bad load, wind, and of course our own shooting skills. I know that the box test is frequently put up as a good test but I honestly don’t think it would help detect a problem that opens up the groups slightly since it is really a tracking test.

King X, I know you see difference between 100 yards and 1k in terms of group size but most of us don’t have the ability and facility to do the 1k test.

I ended up sending my scope back to the manufacturer for evaluation which seems like a good option, but the question is how to evaluate the scope when it comes back "fixed". So if you guys would give me some detailed insight, it would be highly appreciated.

 

[6BRinNZ]

A box test might have been good as you would have at least a before and after to look at. I went by the notes on what leupold said they had done and took it at face value.

IMO there are only so many ways to evaluate a scope which you know. Ultimately I moved on from that scope because I had lost confidence in it...I think confidence factor is the real question (IMO).

 

[jlow]

Agreed about the confidence factor.

I did do a number of groups with FPGMM just before I send it back and will do a repeat to see how it turns out. A box test will definitely be done since if they “fixed” it, I still need to verify. In the end, I will do some load development with it to see how it turns out and the summation of that will determine my confidence factor.

 

[jlow]

Thanks again for the very useful input guys - it's a great help!

 

[mikecr]

Just for info, my 8-32NSX was of 06 vintage. Same as today, but maybe they've learned & adjusted some things by now.
The used scope I bought was a 5.5-22NSX, that happened to track and box test perfectly. This was my 'standard reference' scope for years, and I kept it stand alone in the safe. Already had a ScopLevel set on it calibrated for elevation adjustment plumb & I could mount it to any gun quick -for a sanity check, and then back in the safe you go.

I learned that this was very valuable. Unfortunately, I was talked into selling it with a very expensive gun package(a T2K) a couple years ago. Now I no longer hold a standard reference in my safe except a Mk4 on my son's gun. It truly is perfect, as it's adjustments are in true 1/4MOA(rare) and I might have to borrow it someday..

 

[jlow]

Thanks mikecr – sad to hear that you had to part with your reference scope.

This whole experience is truly a hard lesson I am learning and everything you put in your original post mirrors so much my own experience…. Truly one must make sure that any scope purchase regardless of cost and manufacturer reputation, must be thoroughly tested and nothing should be assumed. I shudder to think of all the time, effort, material wasted, and opportunity lost in matches and instructions that I have gone through using the scope.

 

[queen_stick]

this thread is bummin' my trip out...

 

[Romulus]

I've had 5 NF and shot 4 extensively and they've all tracked through tests at 100 and 500 yds supremely well, but i know when you involve humans there are always going to be those bad ones.

To counter some NF sadness I will say I've seen many Vortex's go down but the shooters get new ones within a few days from the company like nothing ever happened.

Quite a few dudes that shoot SB's in comps have had the Elev lock up but that's usually pretty quiet as someone sad earlier, we spend so much on these and tend to believe it as a last resort and are often embarrassed by the whole deal