Anyone else prefer .1 MIL turrets over MOA?

[Ledd Slinger]

I've always purchased scopes with MOA adjustments on the turrets because I didn't really understand nor care what milradians were about. But this year I purchased a Nikon Black X1000 in 6-24x50 and the only offering in that magnification level has .1 mil turrets. I think I'm hooked on these mil turrets. 1/10th mil is roughly 1/3 MOA and with 5 mils on the elevation turret, this allows me to achieve much further distance adjustments before hitting the second revolution of the turret.

The other thing is that the stated adjustments for elevation on my 'Shooter' ballistic app were DEAD ON all the way out to 900 yards. I've never had any ballistic app be exactly right past 600 yards with scopes having MOA turrets. Always seems I have to tweak the adjustment a couple clicks or more from what the app states when using MOA.

I'm not sure if the Nikon Black X is just the first scope I've had that actually adjusts the reticle graduations perfectly or if the ballistic app can calculate drop in milradians more accurately...Whatever the reason, it sure is nice to finally have an optic that will hit exactly where the ballistic app tells me.

I know this is only the first scope I've owned with mil turrets so it's hard to draw a definitive conclusion. What have your experiences been with using MOA and MIL turrets with ballistic apps? Have you noticed a difference in accuracy of the apps as well?

Just took this shot at 600 yards yesterday with my 338-375 Ruger to verify it again since the last time I tested it earlier in the fall. The turrets are still dialing dead on.

 

[Geno C]

On lower quality scopes I've had them off compared to the ballistic calculator. My nightforce and higher end vortex scopes are always very close. Checking the scopes to make sure they are dead on tracking has eliminated all the problems though.

I am a MOA guy. Simply because that's what I started with and most of what guys I shoot with use them too. I don't find them better or worse than MIL.

One thing I have found that benefits the MOA over the MIL in my shooting has called corrections. Most guys without a reticle call corrections in inches no MILs or MOA. It's quicker for me to convert from inches per yardage to MOA on the reticle than to MILs. Now if your spotter is calling corrections in MILs or MOA, then that makes no difference as long as your scope matches their calls.

 

[Sniper338]

I have two MOA scopes in 1/8 click, they are target scopes...

Everything else I own is MIL in .1 mil or .05 mil for even finer adjusting... I like MILs way more than MOA.

 

[fyrewall]

Logically, .1 mil adjust & mil reticle, makes more sense like metric makes more sense than feet & yards. Like 1 cm @ 100 meters with a .1 mil click and so on out.

On the other hand @ 100 yards = 3600 inches and .1 mil @ 100 yards = .36 inches and so on out, just a little more out to 100 meters makes it .39 inches. Having inches, yards & MOA imprinted in my brain I will stay with my MOA scopes having 1/4 (.25 inch @ 100) MOA adjustments. This is sort of like learning to shoot lefty when you are a righty.

 

[243Mendoza]

The other thing is that the stated adjustments for elevation on my 'Shooter' ballistic app were DEAD ON all the way out to 900 yards. I've never had any ballistic app be exactly right past 600 yards with scopes having MOA turrets. Always seems I have to tweak the adjustment a couple clicks or more from what the app states when using MOA.


View attachment 1026683

The error may be due to different interpretation of what is one moa between your app and the scope, i.e.
one interpretation of 1 moa=1 in at 100yd
another is 1 moa =1.047 in at 100yd

So for 1000yd you could be off by almost 5 inches or a couple of clicks.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

The error may be due to different interpretation of what is one moa between your app and the scope, i.e.
one interpretation of 1 moa=1 in at 100yd
another is 1 moa =1.047 in at 100yd

So for 1000yd you could be off by almost 5 inches or a couple of clicks.

Good point.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Always using MOA in the past, I still find myself thinking of .1 MILs in 1/3 inch increments. Problem of a mind not brought up on the metric system. Makes it easier for me to understand I guess.

 

[243Mendoza]

Always using MOA in the past, I still find myself thinking of .1 MILs in 1/3 inch increments. Problem of a mind not brought up on the metric system. Makes it easier for me to understand I guess.

Yes, if you can't think naturally metric, it's hard to make full use of a mil/mil scope quickly.

 

[Grimstod]

Started MOA and now am exclusively mil. Except for bench rest where i have to use MOA

Mils are easy and make so much more sence. Anyone that does not give them a try is fooling themselves.

 

[fyrewall]

To beat on the MOA subject some more and I think this shows how much more logic a mil - mil scope would be over a MOA - MOA:

a circle consisting of 360 degrees or 360 * 60 min/degree = 21,600 min for the entire circle

the circumference of a circle at 100 yards is 2*pi*radius or 2*3.14*100 = 628 yards, the circumference in inches of a circle having a radius of 100 yards = 628 * 36 inches/yard = 22,608 inches
MOA @ 100 yards or 3,600 inches= 22,608 inches (circumference in inches) / 21,600 (minutes in a circle) = 1.047 inches per MOA at 100 yards

at 1000 yards

the circumference of a circle having a 1,000 yard radius = 2 * 3.14 * 1,000 yards = 6,280 yards, the circumference of the same circle in inches = 2 * 3.14 * 1,000 * 36 = 226,080 inches
MOA @ 1000 yards or 36,000 inches = 226,080 inches (circumference of a 1000 yard circle) / 21,600 min in a circle = 10.47 inches per MOA @ 1,000 yards, or 2.62 inches per one .25 moa click

using a mil - mil scope at 1,000 meters (1 klick), one .1 mil click (on scope) would give 10 cm or 3.9 inches per .1 mil click (1000 meters or 1 klick)

there are 2.54 cm per inch, @ 500 meters (one/half klick) one .1 mil click would give 5 cm or 1.97 inches (essentially 2 inches) at 500 meters or 550 yards - take the shot

after decades of thinking in inches it is an effort to do centimeters.

for me, having a mil dot reticle scope with MOA adjustments is an aggravation.

 

[Geno C]

Like the true moa vs iphy; there is more than one mil being used in the scope business today that also muddies the water a bit.

 

[nakneker]

I converted to Mils on all the scopes I use for dialing up long shots. Mostly because at the time I started long range shooting many scopes were still using moa turrets with a mildot reticle, that made little sense to me. I started buying scopes with mil turrets to avoid the moa/mil conversion needed on moa/mil scopes. Since then most scopes match the turrets to the reticle and the decision is simply moa or mils.

 

[fyrewall]

In addition to having matching reticles and adjustments many or almost all ballistics programs provide data in MOA or mils.

 

[MrBottleneck]

Have numerous Vortex some Mils some MOA, a Sightron in MOA and my last Leupold was in Mils. Was contemplating buying a NF SHV in the bargain cave at Cabelas and it happened to be MOA.
Not really partial of one over the other.

 

[ballison]

Like the true moa vs iphy there is more than one mil being used in the scope business today with also muddies the water a bit.

Please expand. I'm not sure how there can be different mils. And what mfg's are using these different mils? I agree how this could muddy the waters, but I have never heard of this.

 

[Geno C]

Please expand. I'm not sure how there can be different mils. And what mfg's are using these different mils? I agree how this could muddy the waters, but I have never heard of this.

I don't remember off the top of my head which companies use which or which one was settled on for the majority of the rifle scope industry but I remember probably 12 or 15 years ago having this conversation with a few scope guys at shot. It was a long time ago and after the fact haven't really given it much thought since I'm a MOA guy for a few different reasons.

 

[fyrewall]

translating the Wikipedia stuff to my real world.

circumference of a circle with a 500 meter radius = 2 * 3.14 * 500 = 3140 meters (metres, euro talk ?)

3140 (circumference in meters @ 500 meters) / 6283.185 (milliradians in 1 turn, ie. Wikipedia, unit circle) = .4997 meters per turn @ 500 meters

for crude field shooting 3140 / 6280 (a crude approximation of 6283.185 milliradians per turn) = .5 meters per turn @ 500 meters

with a .1 milliradian adjustment one click would move impact @ 500 M = .0499 meters = .4997 (meters) * .1, or 39 (approximate inches in 1 meter) * .0499 = 1.9461 (real close to 2 inches)

a 1/2 meter is roughly 19.5 inches, many real world targets are about that size

.4997 meters * 39 inches per meter (real approximate) = 19.4883 inches (how good can you hold & shoot)

500 meters or about 550 yards is my maximum confidence range (field shooting) using a .308 Win; should the choice be limited to .30's at more than 500 meters I would use a .300 Win.

Using inches and yards I would prefer MOA but the stuff described above can be worked out in yards and inches, like 100 yards = 3600 inches and so on. In a majority of situations like NATO metric measurements prevail. I know nothing about communist scopes

Should I ever buy a mil - mil scope (again) and should it not give 1 cm @ 100 meters per .1 mil click (or .36 inches at 100 yards) I would return it. If I had a .25 MOA clicker and mil dots I would be looking for a trade real fast.

I know nothing about communist angular measurements.

 

[Gina1]

The NRA targets we use are 6 minute targets. 300 yard or 600 yard.. Seeing where the bullet hit, I instantly know how much to adjust my MOA scope. (top of the black, adjust 3 minutes, down to the X).
Makes it simple to get sighted in. Almost all of the shoot n c targets that have a grid on them are 1 inch grids. At 100 yards, it's easy to figure out how much to adjust with an MOA scope.

 

[ED3]

Good point.

The error may be due to different interpretation of what is one moa between your app and the scope, i.e.
one interpretation of 1 moa=1 in at 100yd
another is 1 moa =1.047 in at 100yd

So for 1000yd you could be off by almost 5 inches or a couple of clicks.

Actually the difference at 1000 yards would be less than a half inch(0.47"), less than 0.05 MoA.

 

[Zero333]

I prefer whatever my spotter/shooter is using.
Flavor of this decade is mil/mil ffp.